138 – The Future of Neuropathy Treatment | Stem Cells, Biologics, and Real Recovery Stories

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Vic: Okay, welcome everyone to Health further. I have another good guest today, mark Durante. Mark, thanks for jumping on. I really appreciate it. 

Mark Durante: I appreciate that, Vic. I've been pretty excited so far to get on here, so I appreciate the invite. 

Vic: Okay, so we are gonna talk about really a new, almost cutting edge at the, um, sort of forefront of medical technology and treatment.

Talk about your company rise up and, and how you're helping, uh, patients. 

Mark Durante: Yeah. Well, I would say Rise Up is a passion slash legacy project for me that was born out of my own health issue. But basically what happened is through the use of biologics, I had a reversal on some of my own health issues. So what I wanted to really do with Rise Up was to create a.

I would say a vast portfolio of biologics that gave [00:01:00] practitioners the opportunity to use combination therapies to basically help in wellness, longevity, aesthetics, and traditional medicine, uh, to basically reverse a lot of the things that people are dealing with, whether it's knee pain, whether it's, you know, neurological related issues, whether it's hair restoration, sexual health, you name it.

There's so many areas that this biologic space can go to. But then the other part of it with two was. I wanted to try and develop a company so that we could scale it to help bring the cost down so that more and more people could get involved. Okay. So, and that's been the ultimate goal. 

Vic: I think, um, people think about biologic as you mentioned, in hair loss or sexual health maybe.

Um, but where I got interested is it's now expanding into other parts of medicine. Yes. Uh, like, like nerve neuropathy, damage and, and pain related to that, or, or orthopedics. Um, maybe let's talk about some of the tools. There's, um, PRP and 

Mark Durante: [00:02:00] Correct. 

Vic: Uh. PRP and stem cells. But what is, uh, PRF, which is sort of a dri uh, a next step of p Yeah, 

Mark Durante: it is.

And that's, uh, and PRF is really the next step. Ba Basically what we're doing is we're taking the PRP, but then we're taking it through another process. What we're basically introducing thrombosis back into the body. And basically what thrombosis is doing is kind of rebuilding the scaffolding. That's when you're going to clot that scaffolding what is what's being created so that those platelets that you're getting out of the PRP are adhering to something, hanging out and starting to rebuild process.

Of course, then things just start to evolve where we start getting into exosomes, where we see limitations in PRP or PRS. Then we start getting into exosomes, which are the way all cells in the body communicate, and then we get into more acellular. Type of products, which is, that's a more extensive, that's kind of like think of, think of a water balloon in which you pop the outer membrane of the balloon and you collect all the water contents.

It kind of [00:03:00] starts to carry all of the cell structures of the, of the stem cell, but it doesn't carry the DNA and it doesn't carry the cell membrane. And then you get into the stem cell side of things, which is a living active structure that can morph into a multitude of tissue types. 

Vic: Okay. So, um, maybe describe how RiseUP interacts with patients and with physicians.

I think you are not a physician and so I'm, you're in this, you're in this, uh, advisory role, but often there are, there are physicians involved. How does RiseUP work in between the patient and physicians? 

Mark Durante: So, and that's, that's really the key where RiseUP really does, is they sit between the lab and the practitioner.

So a lot of times the physicians are meeting a lot of different elements that they're struggling with through the pharmaceutical side, through surgical side. Maybe they see that there's an opportunity where they want to take like a first line defense. They'll come to us because we're innovating different biologic products in our labs, bringing them to them so that they can determine what would be the best use, [00:04:00] you know, and of course, you know.

I don't, I'm not a doctor. I oftentimes and joke that I am an md, but that's only through initials, only the, uh, but I think around this, around this, we get, I got very engrossed because I'm working with the researchers to start developing the next generation of products that practitioners going to utilize in order to solve later medical issues.

I have to, I have to expressly say, you know, I can't talk about any cures, you know, of disease and things of that and make any type of claims. But the reality is the research that's being done out there, you can find even last year there were over 25,000 studies that were done in the biologic space. That are continuing to prove the future of this in modern medicine.

And I think we're starting to see some advancements because I just read recently that the FDA is going to permit about 20 new cell structure products through the FD on an annual basis, and that will continue to grow as time goes on. So part of what we're also trying to do is become a part of [00:05:00] that.

Revolution. You know, we wanna have our cell structures up there at the same time receiving acceptance. But right now a lot of them are sitting kind of on the cusp. They're going through different studies. Practitioners are looking at these products. They're trying to understand the pathways in which they're helping to heal the body, and then they're implementing where it's necessary.

And a lot of people are being able to avoid different pharmaceuticals, different surgeries, and I think that's where we're ultimately going. And, and I have to preface this, this is not a conversation against pharmaceuticals, nor is it a conversation against surgery because they all play an applicable role.

But I think what's happening is with the new biologics or regenerative medicine space coming out there. We're not going to have to race to dose, because once you start getting on medications, then you're dealing with side effects. Once you start dealing with surgery, there are some things where once the body has changed form, we're not perfect.

We don't get to put Humpty Dumpty back together again so easily, and so then you can start to have other structural issues that might show up. So I think this becomes, again, you'll hear me say this a lot, is the first line of defense [00:06:00] towards helping the body heal itself. Yeah. So, you know, one of the, I, yeah, go ahead.

Vic: Well, I was just saying, I, I'm really interested in sort of an all of the above, uh, menu of options for physicians. Yes. Where they have different patients with, of course, different conditions, maybe different life lift situations, um, different symptoms. Correct. And so giving them, um, more optionality, more choices is certainly.

I think a net positive, especially when you informed them. As we were talking before, as we were prepping for this, I kind of said, you know, mark, this sounds really good, but um, in God we trust, but everyone else has to bring data. Right. So, so you were high enough to submit, uh, multiple journal reports. I wanted to focus on three.

Yes. Really around neuropathy and, and nerve pain. Correct. Particularly focused around, uh, diabetic neuropathy, uh, or also, uh, neuropathy caused by chemo. Um, chemotherapy, which I think presents in a somewhat similar way. [00:07:00] Um, it does, it does. And so we will, we will attach these, um, in the show notes, we'll have links to these, you know, peer reviewed studies.

They all were published in 2024. So they're pretty recent. 

Mark Durante: Yes. 

Vic: I wanted to put us down that road, um, to have you get the chance to talk through what the research is saying coming out now, how these. Um, treatments sort of add to the repertoire of what pa, what physicians might choose. Course you're not a doc.

I'm not either, but giving them more rationality and, and let's talk about these studies and how they fit in in neuropathy and, and. You know, nerve pain. Yeah. 

Mark Durante: Well, and you know this as a personal story. I mean, we'll get into that later on, but the reality is, is, you know, neuropathy nearly disabled me. So yeah, it was my invitation with an orthopedic surgeon who was doing this sort of stuff that started to say, Hey, we have solutions and it is, and so as we're going through this.

Neuropathy happens in all kinds of different fashions. Like you said, you can have something that could be around diabetes. You could [00:08:00] have something like me where you know, my body's dying and so there's a retraction of blood flow and the nerves are starting to die. You could have it related to chemotherapy.

You could, there's a lot of reasons why we get, I. Neural death. Right? And so in doing this, I think that that was a nice variety of studies just to kind of talk about a variety of different ways, because there's a lot of research right now dealing in, you know, Parkinson's and dealing in MS and dealing, these are all neurological type conditions.

There's a peripheral component to 'em so they can present as neuropathy or nerve dysfunction in the body at the same time. So a lot of it, the, the responsibility to the practitioner is just really trying to find out where's the root cause and then attacking it. 'cause we know, I mean, honestly, in a lot of these neuropathy type conditions, we're dealing with the nerves dying because they're not getting access to blood flow.

There's not getting proper oxygenation. So now you start getting what we call oxidative stress. A lot of free radical development that's not there. It's a cascade of things that, you know, when they go wrong, the whole system [00:09:00] starts to break down and it goes wrong, you know? Yeah. So then we're having, 

Vic: let's talk about, let's talk about this, uh, this article in molecular neurobiology.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm gonna butcher the name, but the role of. Menal stem cell derived mesenchymal. Yeah. Yeah. So what is that for the, for the person that's maybe less educated like me? Yes. Um, and then how does it help, uh, you know, diabetic or chemotherapy induce? Uh. 

Mark Durante: Absolutely. Okay. So, you know, mesenchymal stem cells are traditionally found in umbilical cord, uh, tissue and placental tissue and bone marrow, you know, in fat cells.

But mesenchymal stem cells as their pure nature are more of a regenerative cell. It has the ability to morph into other tissue types. The, there is a hierarchy of those type of cell structures, and so particularly for us, we like to use things that are more in the Wharton's jelly or umbilical cord tissue because it has the most biologically active ingredients of all the tissue [00:10:00] types.

Now, I know a lot of practitioners, based on wherever they feel comfortable in their use, could be involved in bone marrow, fat could be involved in a variety of different things, and there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with those. They're all gonna play a key point, and they all carry certain, you know, specific.

Elements that are gonna play a key role. Right? So as we're, um, as we're walking down this, that mesenchymal stem cell also produces what we call an exosome. An exosome is how those stem cells are delivering biological ingredients amongst each other in order to help with cellular repair, cellular renewal, cellular division.

So what we like to do in these sort of cases is that where we're not using a wholesale living. Stem cell. Yeah, I 

Vic: think, I think the, uh, that innovation of not using the complete stem cell Correct. Reduces some downside risk as well. 

Mark Durante: It does. It does. 'cause you don't have immuno reaction to it. So a lot of times what a lot of people don't realize is the outer membrane that carries the lock in the key.

Right. So. I always tell everybody when I'm talking about this, if you've got a stem cell and there's a lock on that cell membrane [00:11:00] and something tries to come up and unlock it, and it's the wrong key, your immune system's gonna step up and attack it. And that can often present people with a lot of different issues.

So when we remove that cell membrane, or we use components that are within the stem cell. They don't have that lock and key feature, so there's not the immune reaction. And so that's one of the reasons why we like to use that. Plus there's no DNA transfer, so a lot of people are always worried about, Hey, will I pick up somebody else's DNA?

And the answer is, in these acellular components, the, the nucleus and the cell membrane are removed, or they don't play a part, but they are carrying very specific factors, you know, in terms of rejuvenation and healing and in the purpose of neuropathy. Like we talked about before, there's a neurogenesis or a nerve renewal process.

There is an angiogenesis or a vascular improvement. There is inflammation modulation so that you can create an environment so the body can work more functionally. Then you get oxidative stress. Again, all these things are kind of a cascade, and then you're getting, so let me 

Vic: try to rephrase to [00:12:00] see if I'm even following you.

So. Sure. Diabetic patient, maybe it's an endocrinologist, someone trying to help that patient. Correct. And they're, they're working to treat the diabetes and the, and the correct, you know, glucose levels in the blood and their disease. But as a side effect, they get this peripheral neuropathy. Correct. And this treatment, I think, would be delivering right to the source.

And I wanna talk about how you would deliver it. Yes. But deliver to the, to the feet or hands, um, correct. The raw material or I don't know how you would phrase that, correct? Correct. The, the, uh, raw materials that the blood would often deliver that is not being delivered in this patient. Correct? That's correct.

And then that can be either a temporary or a long term solution. They may be on recovery and it could be temporary. Correct. It could be a longer term solution. So talk about how you would think about partnering with a doctor, about, uh, thinking about this. 

Mark Durante: So I think when they're looking at it, we just can take diabetic [00:13:00] neuropathy.

You know, there is a breakdown of the vascular system and the vascular system is running up to the nerves and continuously creating a repair nature. They kind of run parallel with one another. When the nerves start to break down, you start getting this miss signaling that takes place. So, and then that's where we start getting this cascade of other things.

Now all of a sudden the environment starts to get inflamed. And then you d then other key play areas that would've. Other key ingredients that would've come in and started to create the repair process, suddenly don't have a pathway to do so. So I think when we're getting involved in this, we're really trying to say, number one is working with the practitioner is how do we strengthen the vascular system?

How do we create new vascular growth so that it can continue to nourish the nerves? Now that the nerves start to get, become more protective, now all of a sudden things start to function properly. Now the inflammation starts to reduce and the body can start to repair itself in its kind of natural fashion.

Vic: Yeah, and 

Mark Durante: you know, I think it's interesting and that was across all of 'em. So when we talked about some of the ways that this is utilized, I. In the studies, they were used in [00:14:00] a, a variety of different ways. Some of them were actually injected at the nerve, the, the nerve pathways that were affected, kind of like think of it as the root system, and then it would kind of just spread out to all the different nerves that were affected.

There were others that felt like this was more of a total body. And so they were administered through an IV therapy. And then there was another study where it was just applied topically, you know, to the area of injury. And all of them showed very significant results. And there's some interesting things when it comes to the change in pain scores and nerve regeneration and all that, that were affected here because, and I dunno if you want me to talk about that at this particular point, but I think was, yeah, so what 

Vic: I, well, I think the takeaway for me was.

There were without, um, you know, in an hour's worth of reading, and you provided me with more than that. I could have read for several hours. There were free studies done in the last year. Neuropathy or peripheral neuropathy treatments. And you're right. Oh yeah, all three were different, um, [00:15:00] applications. And I wanted you to talk about the Wharton's jelly application 'cause that was a topical application.

Um, correct, correct. And, and I want you also to explain what Wharton's jelly is. 'cause I had not heard that term before. 

Mark Durante: Yeah, so Wharton's jelly is just, Wharton's jelly is kind of the jelly-like substance around the vessels in the umbilical cord, and in there is all those mesenchymal stem cells that we were talking about.

So it's just a very rich source. You have to realize that these were supplying life. When the baby was inside the womb. So there is, and in most cases people didn't realize this, but for years all that was just being thrown away as trash. Then all of a sudden, people started storing their own umbilical cords or cord blood, realizing that, hey, down the road they could play a regenerative.

You know, source in my own body. And then later you get labs like ours where we started to process those, you know, stem cells down to a period of going, Hey, look there, it's, it has not specified yet. So it hasn't turned into that identifying bone structure or [00:16:00] skin structure. So it still has opportunity to do so much good, even outside oneself.

So then we started processing. Yeah. Is there 

Vic: enough of a donor community where, uh, for the patient demand, there's enough of this material? 

Mark Durante: I mean, at this point, we're very rich in the source. Now, I will say all those sources, and I think this is a very important part as we go down this pathway, is that.

Not all Wharton's daily is created equal. There's a lot of contributing factors that make one better than the other. And uh, but at the end of the day, once you pick that right source and then you process it, it can play a very significant role in somebody's outcome. And I think that's where the physician comes in and says, what does the patient need?

And then at that point, starts lining up with the right cell structure. 

Vic: Yeah. And would you say rise up is, uh, sort of analogous to a compound pharmacy or, or like a. Supply chain partner with the pharmac, with the physician. Is that kind of how you play in the room? 

Mark Durante: You know, I would, I [00:17:00] would probably play, it's, it's kind of, 'cause it's really unique how we're positioned, but we're literally kind of like direct to lab, but we're not the lab.

So we're kind of like their partner in bringing these products to them so that they can start playing around with them in their practice and demonstrating. Now we're also involved in doing different studies. I mean, we had a 5,000 patient study that we were doing under the direction of a transplant cardiologist at Cedar-Sinai.

In that study, we were looking at all kinds of things from cardiovascular to autoimmune disease to neurological issues, orthopedic, lung related issues, aesthetics, you know, urology. So it just, it gets very expansive where that same cell structure. Is playing a role in each of them. Yeah. And so at that point now we're trying to say, what else can we do with that cell structure?

What, what is in there that could maybe be something that's more specific towards nerves, another one that's more specific towards bone and what role do they play and how do we put that together so that it produces the best outcomes? Yeah. 

Vic: Yeah. It's super excited. Part of the reason I wanted to focus on neuropathy is I.[00:18:00] 

This, uh, technology often is sort of bucketed in the longevity space or in the right, in um, right. Aesthetic space. Yes. And it's that certainly, but there's a lot more that is, that is there's evidence behind really effective treatments. Um, correct. And so what is the best way for physicians to get up the learning curve and, and uh, sort of get engaged in this?

Mark Durante: Yeah. You know, so I think there's one is that there's always a communication with us where we can give them more direction based on what they're specifically interested in. So RiseUP Medical has its own website, like www.riseupmedical.com. But I think really if you want to start taking your case studies and going on PubMed.

Go on nature. Go on to sell.com. Yeah. These are all, you know, published, you know, journals Yeah. That are bringing this evidence forward. Yeah. We'll have 

Vic: links to your site as well as these three papers and they're, they're serious being lucky. Neurology, American Journal of Biomedical Science. Mm-hmm. These are.

Yes. Big, [00:19:00] big journals out there. They are, 

Mark Durante: they're okay. 

Vic: Let's shift to your personal story 'cause it's a really incredible story. So how did you come to this space? Um, yes, you're an md but you're not a doctor. How did you get involved and start thinking about this? You had, um, you had a heart condition, so maybe let's start there.

Mark Durante: I did. I 

Vic: did, I did. And then talk about how that evolved to today, 

Mark Durante: which is very interesting because the heart condition, um, I only discovered it because I was getting neuropathy that nobody could explain. Originally we were thinking it was diabetic, maybe it was a genetic mutation. Like I was going around and doing all these tests and then all of a sudden one day they go, we hear an irregular heartbeat.

And so just to get a baseline, they were thinking maybe there's nothing wrong with it, but maybe there is. When I go there, they suddenly tell me, well, your, your heart is operating at 50% function. I went through about three years before my heart took a, a major dump, and I literally walked in with a 5% injection fraction.

And that is basically kind of the output of blood to the body, right? Right. 5% 

Vic: is not functional. [00:20:00] Not 

Mark Durante: really the very good No, no, no. The doctor even asked me how I was talking to him, or I even walked into the hospital. He was shocked that I was able to stand up on my own. And, but what was interesting, I went through about a 10 month journey to get a heart transplant after I'd already been through multiple surgeries, had 

Vic: two.

You had two, uh, l. I did. I did. That's right. Which is one more than I thought, uh, you would really want to do. Correct. But you made it through that process and you, you were able to get a, a new heart. I was So you have a, you have a, a transplanted donor heart right now, right? I do. I do. And it, and so that was successful.

And, um, your heart condition, although you're gonna, you know, be rehabbing from it for probably for your whole life. It, it is strong now, and yet I was very strong. The neuropathy symptoms persisted. 

Mark Durante: They did. They actually got worse and, and again, when we talk about blood flow to the area, they thought after the heart transplant that now I'm getting proper blood flow to the feet, that it would naturally [00:21:00] repair and restore the nerves and instead it got worse.

I was on so much medication. Literally, I tell people after going through every drug trial, spinal stimulators, everything, I literally nearly became disabled because I lost the full feeling of my feet and halfway up my legs. Yeah. I was getting muscle atrophy where it was retracting. That was where in a desperate conversation, I was sitting down with an orthopedic surgeon who had been doing stem cell research and he said, Hey, look.

I can use your bone marrow. We can mix this up with some, you know, acellular type products. Reintroduce that back into your body and it should start to create a repair process. And it got me about halfway, but I was spending exponential, greater money to try and keep that result, just level or plateaued.

That's when I started going on an additional search where I found another cell structure, an acellular structure that I took and literally got me off all my medication. Um, to the point where I've restored most feeling. And I'm gonna say this 'cause I always want people to understand this. The, it doesn't necessarily say that there is [00:22:00] a, that it's gonna be a cure.

Could I, if I focused enough? Maybe I could, you know, maybe I won't, but I don't need to take medication anymore. It doesn't actually cause me any issues in terms of the type of lifestyle that I lead. I have zero limitations whatsoever, and that, to me was a success story. Now at this point, I'm running around my body trying to fix everything else, but at the end of the day, now I'm doing some focused injections at my, at these different nerve pathways in order to try and see what type of results we get as we continue to play in the neuropathic space.

Vic: So, so let me, let me back up for a minute. So you, uh, were tied to an orthopedic surgeon in correct, in, I'm gonna say frustration or looking for an answer with, uh, yes. Lack of feeling, uh, neuropathy. Not, not only pain, but there's a numbness you lose feeling, which is, it's kind of dangerous driving, walking around.

It's, it's, you don't realize until you, until you have it, that was, um, but it can be kind of dangerous. 

Mark Durante: That was the scary part because honestly, it would take me three to four days to recover after exercise. I [00:23:00] was starting to miss the foot pedal when I was pushing on the brake and the gas pedal. It was getting scary.

But the other part too is the medication. I was on such high dosages that people didn't know how I functioned as a human being and me already being in the medical space, I was concerned I wasn't gonna be able to soon have a conversation with people. I think you and I talked about it before, like if you had me walk between two people, I was assured to fall into one of 'em because I could not keep a balance between two objects.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, the, and I don't have any time, it's almost out of 

Vic: desperation or frustration. You tried the stem cell therapy? I did. And it had some, some positive effect. And that then inspired you to go further and almost, uh, correct. Maybe not experimenting yourself, but, but keep, keep looking, keep researching, keep, keep working.

Correct. 

Mark Durante: And it was that one product that actually led us to so many other products in the areas we're trying to explore, both for economics, for results, you know, because that's where everybody starts talking about, well, outside of stem cells, exosomes are a great, are a great [00:24:00] choice. Well, exosomes are good, but I find them more effective for acute conditions, not so much chronic.

So that's why we start really, we're bringing this evidence back to the practitioner so that they can understand, because I give you one example. Is that you would have to use three to five times the exosome count to try and produce what we could do in a single CC with an acellular product that's more robustly developed.

So that's what we're trying to bring forth and saying, where do you use these? When do you use these? You know, economics doesn't always pay apart, even though that's what we're trying to drive for. 

Vic: Okay. So, so you are, um, what's the right way to say it? Creating or developing new, uh, new versions, correct.

New iterations of these, the combination of different, um, that is correct. Exosome stem cell extracellular tools. 

Mark Durante: That's it. That's it. I mean, so much so that, I mean, we're getting into new dev, develop, you know, lab developments, new projects. It's a [00:25:00] very exciting time in this space. The, and we're trying to bring forth products that not only just play a general role, but play a very specialized role.

And so we're bringing things to the market that people haven't even heard of yet that are just giving the practitioner an opportunity to just take it one step further and. Those that really step into the regenerative medicine field are seeing some really great results. And ultimately, this is all playing into longevity, right?

Because people, if you ask somebody today, do they wanna live to be 125 based on how they feel, they're gonna tell you there's no chance in hell, right? It is. But if you could say, you could be fully functional to 125. Now, would you like to live that age? You get a totally different answer. So the reality is, is we look at longevity as functionally active to the point of death.

Vic: And I, I like that. And I also wanted to start off this conversation, not in the regenerative medicine longevity, because I think a lot of, um, the industry today, a lot of the money, [00:26:00] a lot of the, uh, interest or the patients have, have neurological pain. Or have a heart condition Absolutely. Or have a, have a, a knee that is painful, but they're too young to get a knee replacement.

Yes. And all of those examples were beginning to have, um, treatments that are not necessarily designed to help me live to 120. Correct. They're help me designed to, they're designed to sort of help me for the next six months, have less pain or have a better experience than that Now, that might also inspire me to do more and.

And live longer, but it can be a much more, uh, much more. It still is chronic, but a much more direct, um, near term solution. 

Mark Durante: Right. And you know, I like to talk about this program, you know, this industry more as a supplement program, like I think God put the roadmap in the body, right? Mm-hmm. It is the key is that it lacks the raw materials in order to do the repair.

So if you don't have the full raw materials, that's why we start to see this general [00:27:00] decay in life. And ultimately people start saying, I can almost point to when you're gonna die, even though there are no magician or crystal ball. The reality is, is that you start producing less and less and the body becomes more dysfunctional.

That starts leasing to other disease types. And we talk about the fact that inflammation equals disease. Yeah. So when the cells start going wrong and inflammation starts to highly develop, that's where we start to see the presence of disease. So how do we stop that? How do we keep the inflammation low so that those things don't ever start, and prevention really is the key.

You and I talked about that, but you know, at the end of the day, we're kinda late to the game, right? Yeah. So we're kinda looking back and going, Hey. You know, our 20 and 30 year olds, they're in the best spot right now while they're still active and they can do the preventative method. But you know me in my 

Vic: fifties.

Yeah, me at me at 50. Yeah. Me at 54. I have, you know, I have some wear and tar hair on the body. I've, I've been correct, you know, reasonably healthy, but also I'm at 50 plus. You know, you have some kinks and some things going on. 

Mark Durante: Oh yeah. I'm just trying to throw paint on it right now to make, make it look good.

You know, paint, right? 

Vic: Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:00] Okay. So what are, besides aesthetics, um. And sort of the, the holistic longevity practices. What are the leading specialties that are really, is orthopedics, is that the leading one or what are, or orthopedics maybe? You mentioned a cardiologist study or 

Mark Durante: orthopedics and pain management.

Yep. It is, yeah. I think cardiology, I'm gonna say this. What's interesting is though they may not have been doing it. You'd be surprised at how many cardiologists are, are open to it and are even suggesting for them or not. I wouldn't say suggesting they're not against them going and doing these sort of stem cell cell therapies.

You know, for me, I'm a heart transplant patient. I tell my doctor all the time and they look at me and they go, well, whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. They don't ever fight me on it. They're, they're like, you're in good shape. Keep it going. You become that case study of, hey. This is what life looks like after transplant, where they're riddled with death most of the time.

So it is, it's a, it's a blessing to be like this and honestly, it's a blessing out of pain came opportunity, you know? And [00:29:00] so that's, 

Vic: yeah. Excellent. So, um, talk to me just for a minute about the, the risks or the questions that a patient or a physician should ask. I mean, if they go to your website, you would walk them through it, but Yeah.

Let's say they're doing their own research. What should they be watching out for or really digging into so they don't have a risk factor that that could prevent? 

Mark Durante: Yeah. You know, I think of a lot of it is, is going to be manufacturing practices. I think, you know, some sort of clinical research, this kind of backing things, digging down into trying to understand how it's built, you know, uh, the thing is too that, you know, it stem cells like a log.

1. You can, you can break that thing up into mulch. You can turn it into a toy, you can turn it into, you know, a doorway. Right. So, and when labs get involved, a lot of them don't try to capture everything in that cell structure. Even if they're using it in acellular, they're just looking for a part of it. So, yeah, a lot of times, 

Vic: and they maybe may not intentional, they just don't know any different, so they're That's correct.

Mark Durante: Yeah. That, that's [00:30:00] correct. And, and two, I think when you're looking into the published studies. You kind of start looking at the common themes that are happening within these studies because they're using some of the richest material available to them, and so, you know, then sometimes this thing turns into a for-profit model and suddenly everybody starts kind of skinnying down on things.

You really want a very results driven company that's driving the initiative. That's why a lot of times too, I'm not afraid to tell somebody going, Hey, I'm not gonna be your least expensive option, but I am gonna be the one that drives the result. And so if you need, need my health. 

Vic: I don't know if I want my health to be the bargain basement shopper, uh, 

Mark Durante: version.

No, no, no, no, no. And, and trust me, and I will say this, even myself in the industry played around with trying to see if I could get some of these lower level products in order to work for my benefit. And I had to suffer in the process. And eventually, but that taught me what I was able to share with physicians of where these really fall into place because.

Do to do our very robust product in an aesthetic [00:31:00] application is unnecessary. It would cost you Yeah. More money and doesn't produce any better result than using the, yeah. So if you're, if 

Vic: you're gonna, um, you wanna tighten up the skin or here regrows and things like that, there are less expensive options.

And then when you're trying to attack neuropathy or something, um, that's right. In a joint pain, it might be different. 

Mark Durante: The biggest thing too that I like to say to practitioners as well is you have to talk about dosing. If you look at these studies. The challenge I run into in this field is everybody's worried about what the patient will pay for, and so they have a tendency to underdose the patient.

I've started kind of sharing with practitioners to start using a good, better, best concept and let the patient decide what they want, because more times than less, they're. Opting for more of the Rolls-Royce option because they don't wanna keep coming in multiple times. Yeah. They're in serious pain. They want to get that done.

So, you know, in this thing here, and that requires a certain dosing level and that's up for the, the practitioner to decide. But that is the biggest [00:32:00] mistake that I find as industry, as underdosing and hoping for the best. 

Vic: Okay. And then let's talk for a minute about regulation. So, um, yeah. The, you know, you and I were prepping for this and you were very careful about, I can talk about these things.

I can't talk about this. Where is this, uh, set of compounds regulated in the us? What are, yes, what is your role in the process? What's the physician's role? What's the patient's role? Yes. How does the FDA play? How's it regulated today? 

Mark Durante: No, no, no. As a matter of fact, I mean, there is some, there is some tissue codes, biologic codes.

They're called 360 1. 3 51. Products can fit within those categories to determine whether or not they're injectable, whether or not they're in, you know, they can make some form of a claim. And then most of the others are regulated or more of a cosmetic act, more topical. It. Uh, so when you're playing in this space, there's a lot of these, you know.

When you're talking about allogeneic, meaning coming from someone else rather than coming from self, the rules change, right? And so if you were doing something like PRP or you were doing your bone marrow or your [00:33:00] fat, you're gonna fall into a, a different type of range than if you're using something from a motor that's your own.

That 

Vic: that. So just to be clear, in that case, the physician is drawing or whoever is drawing blood, kind of spinning it down and then putting it back. Maybe on my head because I'm bold or correct some way. Yeah, 

Mark Durante: that's right. But I think the thing that we're trying to tell people is that, are you impressed where you're at?

Because at the end of the day, the cell structures and what we're pulling from your body has been affected the same way you have. Yeah. So that's why a lot of people migrated to the i, 

Vic: the what's the regulation around the alleric, which is, you know, there's a better supply or I think you could have better correct products.

Uh, it's from other people. 

Mark Durante: Yeah. We call 'em day zero, right? It is because there's been no influence to 'em. They're at their highest potency that they ever will be. It. Um, yeah. And so in that realm, a lot of them are trying to go through the FDA approval process. The, and that is where most of it is right now.

Taking these exosomes and acellular stem cells, they're going through a process, but it's gonna be three to five years. So a lot [00:34:00] of times, you know, practitioners are, may. That's one of the reasons why I say I can't say anything. I can't relate a product to any type of disease state because now that's making a claim and I don't have the foundation for it.

But, but a physician, 

Vic: uh, maybe in an active medical setting could be under an I rrb doing research. Correct? That's exactly right. And has patients that they are doing research, uh, in partnership with, but they're, they still are providing. Treatment and there's disclosures correct. And all kinds of things, but, uh, is that, is that a common pathway or how, how are physicians approaching it?

Mark Durante: It, no, and it is because, you know, the thing a lot of people don't realize is the FDA is out for consumer protection, right? So they're out to watch how you're marketing what you're saying and make sure there's a safety profile, both at the distribution lab level and even at the physician level, you know?

But once you're inside the medical practice. Medical doctors realize they have the freedom to make choices based on how they see fit. The key at that point is that's where their medical board gets involved, because what the medical board wants to see in a lot of these is have they been consented? Have they been given a [00:35:00] variety of other options that they can explore?

1. Getting all the medical history side so that when you go forth with that option, it's clearly determined that that is the option. And that's really how these regulations are played there, coming from two different places, both from the FDA and from their medical boards to make the determination. And so I think if you play in that safe space, remain very educational, present the options, explore everything with the patients, become well-informed as a practitioner so that you can have that.

Proper conversation. That's where I find a lot of the practitioners are going, this is where regenerative medicine is going to play a key role going forward. Yeah. 

Vic: Okay. And then, and all we wanna do is 

Mark Durante: try and help supply if, uh, when that's the choice they wanna make. 

Vic: Yeah. So, so talk about that. So as you start working with a physician group, maybe it's a practice of 10 physicians, 15 physicians.

Mm-hmm. Um, they begin to understand the products that you offer. Right. They make their own determination of when it is. Uh, useful for the patient, then they get the patient consent as [00:36:00] needed. Correct. Um, so we get through all that process, and now they are using one of your products for some purpose.

Mm-hmm. Is it then you have, um, like a production facility and then you're, you're producing it for them? Is it, is it 

Mark Durante: that that's right. Job by job? How's 

Vic: it, how's it formulated or how's 

Mark Durante: it done? No. No. So we have a lab that's producing in larger quantities based on specific, you know, types like, is it the mesenchymal stem cell?

Is it the me stem cell exosome? Is it more of a, the pillow, you know, a dermal papilla? Exosome, which is more for hair? Is it a, is there an exosome that's designed more for face and skin? You know, so the, so as we're doing this, we really are trying to learn from the physician the things that they need, but then also applying the science.

Because inside our labs we have researchers. They're continuously researching these bi, you know, biologics and trying to create solutions for tomorrow. And so at that point, we just try to get them connected directly to the labs in order to order the product to use from the patients. 

Vic: Yeah. 

Mark Durante: But I spend a lot of [00:37:00] my time dealing more on the education side than anything else.

Right. 

Vic: Okay. And then, um, look forward for a minute, like in the next five years, the next 10 years. You don't have a working crystal ball, but, but you're in the space more than I am. Yeah. What, what's the trajectory now and, and where are we headed? What, what's exciting that you're seeing out there? And then what, uh, do we need to figure out and solve for?

Mark Durante: Yeah. No, as a matter of fact, I mean, I can just see what we've done in the last two years compared to the two years before that, and it has launched exponentially the, the greatest innovation. So maybe 

Vic: let's start there. Like where were we two years ago and what has changed over the last two years? 

Mark Durante: I think that everybody has been looking at using more of a generalized cell type in order to kind of, you know, solve the issue.

But now we're starting to kind of narrow down and find very specific elements like what key ingredients or proteins should be present in an exosome. If you're looking at it for joint, what you're looking at it for, cardiac, what you're looking at it for, [00:38:00] neurological. So each, each pro, you know, each disease.

Yeah. So 

Vic: instead of using one. Correct. Uh, for all cases you start having specialized products, like for nerve. That's, that's correct. Pain. You should use this. Correct. And for, for a cardiac or an orthopedic, uh, application, you would use something different, which has maybe the, the matrix and the proteins that are added in are different.

Mark Durante: Correct. And so I think we've gone from a generalized to a more specific type of format. And I think the other part too is that when you start bringing in the AI side into healthcare, you're gonna see another level of innovation that's going to take place. It's going to make these even better because as we start to understand more of how the body is utilizing these products, what pathways are playing a key role in terms of the healing process, then.

They start to build that direction. So even though I don't have the crystal ball, I, I see a lot of that. I mean, we're seeing things where they're taking cancer cells and turning them back into muscle tissue. You know, you're sitting down there going, I never thought I could do anything with [00:39:00] a cancer cell.

But there is very unique elements that are happening. So this gets really, I, I think we're even gonna be able to go back to ourselves as the key source at some point. Yeah. You know, so innovation will change continuously. I, I think we're playing in a space, 'cause this is where we're at. 

Vic: And have you seen the, um, the scientific research and publications also growing exponentially?

Because as people are sort of experimenting with these new, new, uh, I don't know, new. Comp composite materials, they then wanna research it and then someone will follow that and, and sort of build on that. 

Mark Durante: They do look, the, the year before last year there was 22,000 studies that were brought forward. The year before that, I wanna say there was somewhere in like 17, 18,000 studies.

So you see this exponential growth. 

Vic: Yeah. 

Mark Durante: So it's showing, and as a matter of fact, the growth in the worldwide market of these um, therapies is at 30% per year. That is unheard of in an industry, and that is all, that's already a billion dollar industry. Yeah. So to, to grow [00:40:00] 30% in a billion dollar marketplace, that's pretty significant.

So that's, I think, the blame on the wall. Well, that's what, 

Vic: that's what really impressed me that I, I had this, um, just out of my own ignorance, categorized as aesthetics or, uh, set of cosmetics. Correct. And it's, it's grown. Much broader than that and um, correct. And so I think that is probably because I haven't paid attention in the last couple years.

And so, uh, part of the reason I wanted to do this show is to shine light on it and sort of help physicians maybe understand, give, give people a handoff again, just where your website is and then maybe other, other podcasts or other things that you listen to or that you'd recommend if they wanna dig in more about this.

Mark Durante: You know, it, uh, I should have prepped you with that question. I didn't. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. As a matter of fact, I, I appreciate that. It's not so much the podcast as much as I like to dig into the research. Yeah. Okay. So I'm doing a lot of digging into the research. I'm using AI in order to kind of simplify it and bring it, and as a matter of fact, I wouldn't even encourage other people to do that.

I mean, here's the thing. You just have to make sure you're prompting these things properly. But the [00:41:00] reality is you start to find a common theme. You know, and so in that common theme, you can learn quite, quite a bit. But, you know, I do love the, the podcast side, but I'm more stuck into the research because that's what the physicians want, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And then of course they can always find our stuff through RiseUP medical.com. Yeah. It, um, and so, yeah. Absolutely. 

Vic: Well, mark, incredible story. I love that you took your, your personal experience. Which, you know, certainly was, um, challenging, but you emerged from it. Yes. Yes. And now you are bringing that, those lessons learned through, uh, you know, through hard challenges on yourself to the, to the public.

Yes. Which is incredible and really, really kind and valuable. 

Mark Durante: Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I was 18 years in the medical field and didn't even know about this, and that's why it turned into a passion project because after. Stopping my suffering. I didn't wanna see anybody else suffer like that. Right, right.

I mean, it's, uh, so that, that's, that's where this has come about. Now [00:42:00] it's turning into a legacy project because I see how innovative this is, and I probably won't be alive long enough in order to see what it truly turns into. But if I can play a part in the beginning, that's, that's, that's what's important to me.

Vic: Yeah. Excellent. Well thanks for doing this. We'll have, uh, some, I appreciate that, uh, looking into the research. Hopefully we'll get this, these treatments broader out there. It'd be fun. 

Mark Durante: That would be awesome. That would be awesome. I'm always here to help. So, Vic, thank you so much. 

Vic: Okay. Thanks for doing it.

Appreciate it. 

Mark Durante: Yeah, you too. Bye-Bye.