115 – Trump’s Crypto Power Play, DeepSeek’s AI Breakthrough, & the Economic Shock No One Saw Coming!

[00:00:00] Marcus: If you enjoy this content, please take a moment to rate and review it. Your feedback will greatly impact our ability to reach more people. Thank you. All right, I'm back. Yes, you need me. No question about that. Uh, okay. Good show last week. 

[00:00:16] Vic: Yeah, there's a lot to cover a little longer maybe than ideal but but a lot of a lot of policy to go through Yeah, yeah 

[00:00:23] Marcus: a lot to cover.

[00:00:24] Marcus: Um, I love emily. She is she's a dear friend and um, You know, I think that she Is largely responsible for my understanding of the moment that we're in, you know, she's the, she's the person closest to me that talks to me the most about, um, the right, she, she's not a political, yeah, she, she has a point of view, um, and, you know, she's an analyst, but she's kind of [00:01:00] a clean analyst insofar as she's not Tied to anything.

[00:01:05] Marcus: No one has put money behind her. You know what I mean? So like she's an 

[00:01:08] Vic: independent researcher. What you 

[00:01:09] Marcus: see is what you get. Yeah. What you see is what you get. Um, and so I, I appreciate that about her. Um, you know, I've been on her show on. On Hedgeye several times, and she's been on Insight with us, um, many, many times.

[00:01:28] Marcus: And I talked to her, you know, when, when things are normal weekly. 

[00:01:33] Vic: Yeah. 

[00:01:33] Marcus: Right. And, um. She's been on this show. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She comes on quarterly to kind of talk about policy. This was, this was different. 

[00:01:41] Vic: Yeah. 

[00:01:41] Marcus: This was different. Yeah. This was 

[00:01:42] Vic: not a, this was not a quarterly one. This was a guest host.

[00:01:45] Vic: This was different. I chose her to guest host because of the inauguration and all the executive 

[00:01:50] Marcus: orders. Of course, and she would be very knowledgeable about those things. Um, but she's not apolitical. And, um, you know, I think that [00:02:00] the thing that we have done on this show is tried as best we can to take the investor's perspective.

[00:02:16] Marcus: And I would say the investor's perspective is fairly political. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, I think the investor's perspective is free markets. Um, and then we each bring our own personal, um, aspects into it at times so that it's not like. You know, it's not CNBC, right? Um, we do bring our own personal aspects.

[00:02:38] Marcus: And then in 

[00:02:38] Vic: health care, there's, there's regulation and reimbursement. So if something is being reimbursed at a high rate, yeah, I'll invest in that because it's my job to make money in that space. And whether I agree with the policy or not. Yeah, I think I'm mostly a capitalist 

[00:02:56] Marcus: versus right or left. Yeah, that's, that's, that's exactly right.

[00:02:59] Marcus: So, you know, [00:03:00] I think the thing about, um, I think the thing about last week, in addition to it being the, uh, the inauguration, it was also a very, very intense week. Um, the, the, the speed of action, the number of executive orders that came out. Um, and you know, the thing about that is it was both. Well planned, meaning everything was buttoned up and ready to go and also moving that quickly.

[00:03:37] Marcus: It's impossible to not break things, right? Yeah, it's just impossible. I don't care who's doing it. 

[00:03:43] Vic: Well, the Republic, I mean, Trump and the Republicans called it shock and awe. They wanted to come out of the, come out of the gate with a huge amount of things that people are sort of saying about it. 

[00:03:53] Marcus: Right.

[00:03:54] Marcus: Um, and by the way, just for listeners, uh, You might [00:04:00] want to skip this section if you just want to listen to the show to kind of get because I'm going to talk for a minute before I say let's dig in. So, um, you know, it, it was a, uh, it was a long, long week for a lot of people, you know, um, I went to UVA, a bunch of my friends live in the DMV area.

[00:04:19] Marcus: Um, several of them either work for the government or, uh, or are, um, Working in a way that that they're very closely related to the government. 

[00:04:32] Vic: Yeah 

[00:04:35] Marcus: You know, I'm an Aspen Institute health innovators fellow many of many of the fellows run nonprofits or Working in tight coordination with with the government.

[00:04:44] Marcus: Isn't that the thing about health care, right? 

[00:04:46] Vic: Yeah 

[00:04:46] Marcus: that how do you avoid actually working with the government? Right, it's it's 

[00:04:51] Vic: Everyone 

[00:04:51] Marcus: that's working with the government Yeah. They pay half the bills. Yeah. Yeah. How, how, how do you avoid doing that? Right. Um, you know, I'm, I'm on the board of HFMA and, [00:05:00] uh mm-hmm.

[00:05:00] Marcus: You know, largely focuses on, on health systems. Not exclusively, but largely focuses on health systems. Um, and not just for-profit or non-profit, but certainly in America there's a lot of non-profits. Yeah. You know, a lot of nonprofits and, um, you know, I think, and they take care of millions of people take care of our communities.

[00:05:18] Marcus: And I think when we've been on this show, we have tried to, um, respect the, the unique challenges that nonprofit health systems have. Uh, they have different paramixes. They may not have the most ideal markets. You know, they can't always pick and choose. They certainly have a larger burden for charity care, et cetera.

[00:05:37] Marcus: Those things are all real. Yeah. You know, I mean, I, I have people in my health innovators fellows class who I know personally, I know what they're doing. You know, I know the work that they're doing and, and the innovations that they're doing. And um, you know, they are taking care of the most vulnerable.

[00:05:56] Marcus: Yeah, you know, there's no question about that. Um, and that, and that [00:06:00] actually doesn't matter if it's an academic medical center, one of the large super regionals or like a safety net. I mean, I know people working at all three and I can say in all three cases, they're doing that. So I think, you know, given the intensity.

[00:06:13] Marcus: Of last week, um, what I noticed about the show was that Um, I think I noticed my role on the show. I think I think it's the most important point and and I Yeah, and I would just sort of apologize to the listeners for not being here. I couldn't help it Yeah, um, but I would say I would apologize to the listeners for me not being here because I don't I don't want anyone to Audit themselves, silent themselves, edit themselves.

[00:06:45] Marcus: I want Emily to come on here and say who she is. Um, but I would have fucking called her on her shit. You know what I mean? Um, when she said things that were her opinion. And not like, real. I always [00:07:00] do. You know what I mean? I always do. I always do. And, and, and, and we manage to still be incredible friends with that, right?

[00:07:06] Marcus: You know what I mean? We, we, we are able to disagree. Well, yeah, 

[00:07:13] Vic: we're able to 

[00:07:13] Marcus: disagree really well, 

[00:07:14] Vic: you know, and leave Emily his side. I think you and I don't agree on everything No, and well Checking 

[00:07:20] Marcus: because the two of you are aligned on yes, right. That's that's the problem is that we're checking on it.

[00:07:24] Marcus: Yes. 

[00:07:25] Vic: Yeah, right Yeah, yeah, so my Probably my natural bias is aligned with her. Yes Yeah, I mean, I'm not mad at that right? Well, I'm not saying you're mad but the show is More balanced when you're giving the the other point of view a thousand percent and I I probably should have done a better job Stepping into that role, but there were so many policies.

[00:07:55] Vic: I just want, I mean, it was hard to keep up with all of it. So yeah, I was mostly trying to let's [00:08:00] navigate the show in general. I, 

[00:08:03] Marcus: I'm not litigating your performance here. Uh, because I, I think you, I listened to it, you know, I listened to it. I actually thought it was a good show. Um, cause I know you both.

[00:08:14] Marcus: Right. And actually, I, I didn't agree with everything you both said. 

[00:08:17] Vic: Mm-hmm . 

[00:08:17] Marcus: Um, but I thought it was, but I did think it was a good show. I, I learned a lot. I thought it was a good show. Um, but I felt, uh, on a week, like last week mm-hmm . It was an important show for me to be on. Yeah. And I wish I was on it, you know, I wish I was on it.

[00:08:34] Marcus: So I, I, I think I didn't quite. Understand the importance of my role here, and I got a better understanding of it. Um, I wanted to, I wanted to read you a quote. Uh, this is a quote from Toni Morrison, uh, from a speech that she did at a commencement for a college graduation. [00:09:00] The function, the very serious function of racism is distraction.

[00:09:05] Marcus: It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining over and over again your reason for being. Somebody says you have no language, and you spend 20 years proving that you do. Somebody says your head isn't shaped properly, so you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so you dredge that up.

[00:09:29] Marcus: Somebody says you have no kingdoms, so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing. So, right now, in the, in the everything that's wrong with America is diversity moment, that's what me and people like me are experiencing. [00:10:00] We're not asking for any sympathy on it. And I would say we probably are.

[00:10:09] Marcus: A little bit kicking ourselves for getting a little too excited about the potential of this country actually, like, making real progress. Um, I am not delighted that I made changes to Jumpstart Nova in 2023 so that I could have peace last week. Right. Because I knew it was coming. Yeah, you could see it coming.

[00:10:38] Marcus: I knew it was coming. And I got a lot of, uh, I got a lot of, uh, I don't know, people were, were disappointed in that, in the decision that I made to change, um, to change the mandate, you know, I mean, we, we had some [00:11:00] LPs, uh, you know, that were really not happy about that, um, but, you know, If it's one thing, it's been kind of burned into me from day one is like, survive to live, to live, to see the next day.

[00:11:20] Marcus: I think what's going to be different this time, my sense, what's going to be different this time is, I think there's going to be a little bit less trying to prove the next thing. I think that, um, we're going to trust people on their word this time. And take them for who they are and what they say they are.

[00:11:45] Marcus: Um, as, and I, and I think that's, I think that's the right thing to do. When I was in the, um, Aspen Institute fellowship process, they make every fellow go through this one week called the executive seminar. And, um, [00:12:00] they give you this book, uh, it's called the executive's compass and. I have to be honest, like the one week we did the executive seminar, it's different than the rest of the fellowship because you're only with a subset of your fellows.

[00:12:13] Marcus: And then you have like other people that are that are so, uh, it's not quite the bonding experience that the actual fellowship is because the fellowship it's like, A, we're, we're all in the same area, we're all doing healthcare stuff, and B, we're spending like four weeks together as opposed to this one week.

[00:12:29] Marcus: Um, but interestingly, I, I will say this was probably, of all the things we did, one of the, the most powerful things I took away from, from the Aspen Institute, um, fellowship. And it's this, it, It's this framework, right? It's this framework for an executive to sort of understand the tensions and the trade offs in society.

[00:12:52] Marcus: Um, and so it's a compass and, and the, the, the poles are north and south is liberty and equality. [00:13:00] Uh, and then east and west is efficiency and community, right? And so, um, once I saw this, I understood politics so much, so much better. And I understood how, how difficult it is to be in the center and why it's, you're always kind of getting pulled in these, in these different directions.

[00:13:19] Marcus: Right. So right now we're, we're very, very much up into the right. We are, we are in the liberty efficiency quadrant. Right. That's, that's where we are. I don't think we'll be there forever. I think the pendulum swings. I think, I think we go through cycles in humanity. Um, and honestly, like having this framework was really helpful for me to sort of understand the much, much bigger play my short, precious life fits into, you know, just one wave of it.

[00:13:45] Marcus: And I, and I'm getting to experience what happens when, you know, humanity moves from community and equality to liberty and efficiency, you know what I mean? And, and these kinds of swings. And so having that perspective, reading the [00:14:00] classics, um, it does provide. Some comfort, you know, to sort of not feel like a moment like this is so existential 

[00:14:11] Vic: Yeah, you have you have the opportunity to get perspective on what came before that's right and see where where your life and these These times fit into the overall 

[00:14:22] Marcus: that's right.

[00:14:22] Marcus: That's right. Yeah. Yeah, and so and And at the same time, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm an investor, I basically control my own time, um, you know, I'm, I'm really, I'm really, uh, minimally impacted by the things that happened over the course of the last week compared to many people that I'm very, very close to, you know, and, and so, um, you know, I think I just wanted to apologize to any of our listeners, um, who felt that for, um, The very, very [00:15:00] large number of people in this country, you know, we need to remember, um, to this, to the Victor, go the spoils and, uh, politics are competitive and the truth is, um, Donald Trump and the Republicans won.

[00:15:15] Marcus: And so they get this moment. And, um, and that's, that's just how this works. That is just how this works. Okay. They get this moment. They won. Okay. Um, and, uh. And so we we live with that. We have to live with that. Um, but

[00:15:36] Marcus: an assertion that it's right that it's fundamentally right. Um, you know, I certainly didn't do that for the Biden administration all throughout, you know, at the time when we were talking about Gensler's weird issues with crypto or Lena Khan and the FTC. Um, you know, I mean, I called that one as yeah. As, as I saw it, um, I'm going to [00:16:00] do the same here, you know, uh, do, do I think move fast and break things is a great way to, to run government?

[00:16:08] Marcus: Even if your goal is to, is to do something great for future generations, like cut the deficit. I think that's a worthy ambition. Absolutely. Um, do I think move fast, break things and blame every single thing on diversity is a good way to go about being a unifier of this country? Of course not, of course not, you know, um, and, uh, and that was missing.

[00:16:29] Marcus: So, uh, yeah, you know, look, I'm, um, I'm here to be an investor. You know, I'm here to be an investor. I understand the nature of competition. And I understand that, uh, this is Donald Trump's moment and he, he earned it. He won it. Um, and, uh, and quite frankly, the Democrats did him nothing but favors in terms of the way that they manage their campaign.

[00:16:56] Marcus: Um, and historically that has been my team. [00:17:00] And so I. I feel that I can get mad at the way that they ran their plays. I think their playbook was awful. Um, for sure. Um, but Republicans won and, and now we will see how this goes. You know, we'll see how this goes. But, uh, my role here, your, your job is not to change.

[00:17:24] Marcus: My role is to just show up, you know, and I'm saying that because I'm not going to show up for the next two weeks, right? I'm going to be traveling. I'm not going to be able to show up. Um, but I think what makes this show valuable is We are not Uh, we're not dragged around by our collars by anybody You know, and we have our opinions and we're not just go along guys, and we are trying to objectively [00:18:00] figure out what the hell is going on in this crazy world of healthcare and the economy and artificial intelligence.

[00:18:07] Marcus: I, I think that's what we're trying to do here. Um, not assert. That certain things are right. And that was the problem that I got with last week's show. And that's exactly what I expect from Emily, because that is consistent with who she is and what she does. The problem was not her. The problem was I wasn't here.

[00:18:27] Marcus: So, um, 

[00:18:29] Vic: yeah, well, I mean, that's me own. I think that makes sense to me. I want to. respond. I mean, I think my personal view is that the right thing is to give all people kind of a fair playing field to, to live their life and perform. And there needs to be like an equal opportunity for advancement and success.

[00:18:55] Vic: And we do not have that in this country. [00:19:00] And there's no question that black and brown and lower income and all kinds of people and women when women do not have An equal opportunity, they don't. And so, DEI 

[00:19:15] Marcus: But there are many people today who would claim they do. Who would say they've had a superior opportunity over the last four years.

[00:19:22] Marcus: Yeah, but 

[00:19:23] Vic: that's not correct. I 

[00:19:24] Marcus: mean, well, many people would say that. That is the dominant vibe. Right now. No, there's no question. That's the dominant vibe right now. 

[00:19:35] Vic: Well, 

[00:19:37] Marcus: I agree. I hear you. The 

[00:19:39] Vic: Republicans won and specifically Trump ran on really fears around illegal immigration and this, this common perception among middle class white people that they're not getting ahead because of some [00:20:00] DEI program.

[00:20:01] Vic: I don't think that is true, but he did a good job selling that story, and middle class and lower class people of every type are suffering, and so a lot of them are suffering now. I think we needed you last week. And also, I just want to say to listeners that I could have done a better job being more neutral or trying to do a better job, but 

[00:20:32] Marcus: I 

[00:20:33] Vic: didn't 

[00:20:34] Marcus: do that.

[00:20:34] Marcus: I thought you did just fine. I thought you did just fine. Um, so. Anyway, that was 20 minutes, uh, and we got a lot of stuff to cover. Um, and, uh, I wouldn't quite call it an ambush, but I did not give you any prep that we were going to do this. Right. Well, I mean, 

[00:20:50] Vic: I think it wouldn't have been honest to the listeners if you had, if we had rehearsed it ahead.

[00:20:55] Marcus: Yeah. 

[00:20:55] Vic: And part of what I like about this show is that You and I bring [00:21:00] very different life experiences, very different points of view, different political aspects. And at the day, we're both founders and GPs and trying to find a way to make healthcare better and make money for our LPs. And we've worked together for a long time.

[00:21:16] Vic: And so, you know that I am trying to do well in investing and be a decent person, even though I screw up and make mistakes. Of course. That ends up making a better show and more. More honest discussion around health care issues, and it doesn't work if you're not here. But we have to, I mean, I'll have a guess next week.

[00:21:43] Vic: It won't be very controversial. Probably that week was very controversial. It was, 

[00:21:48] Marcus: it was on that week, right on that week 

[00:21:50] Vic: when everything, and you know, the money was all frozen and all it was, it was a very difficult. Political [00:22:00] week. 

[00:22:00] Marcus: Yeah. Um, yeah. So, so, so for any of the listeners who might be upset with what I just said, because you believe that DEI is wrong, um, and any of those things, I just want to say, you don't have to worry because I know, like Tony said, there will always be one more thing.

[00:22:21] Marcus: And don't worry about me. None of this is necessary. None of this is necessary. I will be spending my time talking about the economy. and healthcare and AI on this show. So don't worry, don't, don't change the channel. Don't know. Subscribe. Uh, don't, don't, don't worry. You, you don't, you don't have to do that.

[00:22:41] Marcus: Uh, but just know where my head's actually at. Uh, and with that, let's dig in.

[00:22:59] Marcus: All [00:23:00] right. US GDP grew 2. 5 percent in 2024, but slow slightly in the final quarter. Tell me about it. 

[00:23:06] Vic: Yeah. I mean, two and a half percent growth is. Pretty good, given the size of our economy and, and how it feels, which is not really that good. Hmm. Um, and the consumer is still spending a lot. So it's, it's a good news story.

[00:23:22] Vic: I'm not sure it really, I mean, I just said it, it doesn't translate in the way that I would expect this kind of growth economy to translate. Right. But, but that's the facts. 

[00:23:34] Marcus: Well, it's because inflation is sticky. Right. So, so it's still harder to run a business because labor costs are high and supply costs are high.

[00:23:43] Marcus: It's still harder to get out of the grocery store without spending a hundred dollars, right? So it's like, like growth should feel good and like things are getting easier. And they're not getting easier, you know, and that's, that's the trick of inflation, right? That's the trick of inflation, right? But you [00:24:00] got to have growth.

[00:24:00] Marcus: I mean, you don't want inflation and negative growth. That's a really bad situation. So at least we are continuing to grow. That is, that's making things somewhat sustainable. So Powell pissed Trump off. Uh, he, he, uh, he came out and said that, you know, well, inflation is sticky. I don't think I should be cutting.

[00:24:18] Marcus: It was, what was it? 12 zero. Like nobody voted for a cut on the FOMC. Yeah, 

[00:24:23] Vic: I mean, I think it's always pretty close to unanimous, but, but I think, I think Powell's right. I mean, there, there was no reason to cut. Right. This month, I don't think you should cut all year. I mean, we have inflation over the benchmark.

[00:24:38] Marcus: Well, you need, he's data driven, so you shouldn't make a decision about the whole year when it's January. You never know. It's, I mean, we live in the fastest times I think maybe that have ever existed. I mean, the 

[00:24:48] Vic: government spending is a big part of the economy, right? Right. If they really do cut whatever a trillion dollars that will come out of GDP, [00:25:00] that would And so if all of that happened, which none of it has right now, then maybe, yeah, how it would reevaluate the data, but he should not.

[00:25:12] Vic: I like, I think the Fed chair being fairly independent of the president is a good thing. 

[00:25:19] Marcus: Oh, it's a very good thing. It's a very good thing. I mean, in fact, maybe just a little commentary. Um, I think it has been. Good for me to, to watch in real time while the president does have incredible powers, even more so now kind of with this Supreme court, um, this tremendous power in the office of the president.

[00:25:40] Marcus: It has been. Interesting to watch all of the counterbalances to the executive power, you know, to watch the Fed, to watch the judicial system, to watch the legislators and, and just kind of see it all in very real time. See things get rolled back that were, you know, maybe overly aggressively rolled out.

[00:25:59] Marcus: Right. [00:26:00] So it's just been nice to see that the American system, uh, does have a lot of thoughtfulness in it. Yeah, it really does. Um, so anyway, I just want to say that, uh, Trump media announces new push into finance to support the Patriot economy. The company is investing 250 million into crypto and other investments to kickstart a broader financial services venture.

[00:26:21] Marcus: Did you and Emily talk much about the Trump coin? We didn't. Okay. No. I was about to say, I didn't, I put 

[00:26:27] Vic: this, this is our first crypto story I think we've ever done on the show. First true crypto story? 

[00:26:32] Marcus: I think 

[00:26:32] Vic: so. 

[00:26:33] Marcus: Alright, we gotta start adding more crypto for real. Whoa. Cause crypto's legitimate now. 

[00:26:36] Vic: I mean, yeah.

[00:26:38] Vic: I mean, we were talking about it offline. Yeah. When the president, well, the incoming president. Three days before inauguration and the first lady both sell a crypto token. Yep, it's a lot of meme coin. To monetize their, [00:27:00] um, notoriety, their fame, or however you want to frame it. Yeah, yeah. The coin doesn't do anything.

[00:27:05] Vic: No. Today. Today it doesn't do anything. Um, uh, that signaled to me that I could do that. My portfolio companies could do that. That was the point of it. Anyone, anyone, if the president can do that, anyone can do it. Now whether I want to or not is a whole different topic. Is a whole different topic. But the Overton window or what is, what is allowed or possible or within the regulatory apparatus of the United States.

[00:27:36] Vic: is wide open. Yeah. And so I think we need to start covering crypto stuff because it's, it's a viable pathway. Now it has pros and cons, which we'll cover over the next multiple shows. I'm sure you and I have I've been through it for a long time. This is, this is sort of the first thing [00:28:00] to, to then follow up on after he, after Trump launched his Trump coin.

[00:28:05] Vic: And have you seen the, uh, the cartoonish version of the meme Trump? He's like, you know, buff and cut. It's ridiculous. Crazy. Sure. Um, now his, the company that he is behind Trump media and I think his sons runs it. Yeah. So he's. Technically not running it, but it's a son. It's always money. Um, and his brand and it's and it's They're investing 250 million dollars additional Into other crypto assets.

[00:28:38] Vic: So they're just like doubling down and keep going 

[00:28:41] Marcus: 250. They made that weekend. Yes Uh, because they have the whole world liberty financial bit, right? No, I didn't I don't know You don't know world liberty finance. That's that's their other crypto business. That's that's like really don jr. And eric Okay.

[00:28:55] Marcus: Crypto thing. Yeah. So, so, so the Trump coins, I think are related [00:29:00] to that. Look, I, we, we, that we, we probably need to like actually spend some time researching that before we like make crazy statements, but, um, they have a lot of assets already in crypto. It's a lot. Yeah. They have a lot of assets in crypto and it's, I think the important point that you brought up it, first of all, I think this is smart.

[00:29:19] Marcus: Okay. Like, I think the idea of Trump, uh, Leveraging crypto and and actually supporting the Patriot economy. It makes all the sense in the world. He is the shelling point for the Patriot economy. Yeah, he's got surrogates, which are Fox News, Alex Jones, Newsmax. Yes, right. He's got surrogates. But why the hell would you cede the Patriot economy, which is fundamentally your brand?

[00:29:44] Marcus: You are the shelling point for it. I would just cede it to them. They're all making all this money selling all this, like, you know, off the grid, build your bunker, blah, blah, blah. He should be the one making all the money off of that. So this is really smart. You know, that's one point. The next point is that, [00:30:00] uh, yes, we are in a new era of capital.

[00:30:05] Marcus: Aggregation and allocation. A very new era. Um, thank you for pushing me to listen to the latest all in episode. Uh, cause I, I, I told you I had to take a break because sax was driving me nuts. Um, but like it was actually really good to hear him at the end of the episode, right after being in the oval office, getting the executive order signed for the working group.

[00:30:31] Marcus: Like just hearing it directly from him was very good, right? And, um, Yeah, listen, we are, cryptos is going to be very, very legitimate. I mean, Trump went to Davos and said, like, we're going to be number one in the world in crypto. Right, right. And I'm sorry. A, I can't be mad at that. And B, like, it just makes me so Upset that the Democrats gave this away.

[00:30:56] Marcus: This was so this this was I I'm convinced. [00:31:00] I'm serious I'm convinced. This was the biggest unforced error and I think later on there will be like Documentaries books. Yeah, I think I think this was the unforced error Because crypto is such a niche weirdo thing like the general public does not understand what a big role this thing played In this last election cycle, I mean, this was such an unforced error.

[00:31:25] Marcus: I was 

[00:31:27] Vic: in the audience when Donald Trump in Nashville at the Bitcoin conference addressed the crowd and he was very supportive of Bitcoin and crypto. And I. Left and bought a bunch of Bitcoin because it was clear. It was clear. It was clear that and The reason he was is he raised a ton of money an hour before that speech from people that had a lot of crypto [00:32:00] assets and want clarity about what's allowed and what's not allowed.

[00:32:06] Vic: And I think that's absolutely right. That was in maybe June. If I knew about it, the Dems definitely knew that he had raised 25 

[00:32:18] Marcus: million in an hour and done this. They couldn't turn around operation choke point 2. 0. You can't undo that. You can't undo it. Like, like it would have taken so, the unforced error was not.

[00:32:30] Marcus: Appealing to the crypto crowd in the summer of 2024, the unforced error was Gary Gensler and Elizabeth Warren, period, period that had nothing to do like when you think about. When, when, when, when I think about this election, right, and maybe let me blow it out a little bit. When I think about politics, right?

[00:32:51] Marcus: When I think about politics, I generally boil it down to two big things, the economy [00:33:00] and social issues. Now, I know there's also geopolitics and a bunch of other things in there, but like as a citizen, I generally break it down into those two buckets. That's probably how most people vote. The economy and social issues, right?

[00:33:12] Marcus: And you could see because of the setup of the Supreme Court. That the social issues were in a very tenuous spot, like it, we, we, we, we were, we're on the line to roll back the country on social issues, basically to the sixties and probably before that, like, that's, that's where we're, that's where we're, we're kind of headed here.

[00:33:41] Marcus: Okay. 

[00:33:42] Vic: And that was a 30 year project. That's right. That's right. And. It could have been more easily stopped in year one, but by the end it was hard. That's right. 

[00:33:55] Marcus: You knew that that was, so there was no alignment on that. There was, [00:34:00] there was no alignment on that. Anyone who was strong on either side of that fence, you weren't winning.

[00:34:05] Marcus: Like you weren't going to move to the other side. The swing vote was on the economy. Yeah. The swing vote was on the economy. There was no swing vote on social issues. I'm sorry. People who believe what they believe, believe what the hell they believe. The swing vote was on the economy and the Dems ran a piss poor playbook on the economy.

[00:34:27] Marcus: They just. Did they just did like,

[00:34:34] Marcus: you can't give them the credit for the inflation stuff. You got to give pal the credit for, for, for managing the inflation stuff. You know, um, all of the regulatory environment stuff, like listening to Mark Andreessen literally say the moment when he decided to. Back Trump like yeah, he he a six. It's like we watched it happen We watched them like roll out this [00:35:00] manifest and we're like what the hell's going on I'm watching Ben Horowitz who I started a venture thing with Nas I'm like, what the hell's Ben Horowitz doing writing a check to Trump, right, you know It was because of the regulatory environment and their economic policies.

[00:35:15] Marcus: So literally you sent the rich people who were like career Democrats and were willing to just keep on backing you. You sent them. To this guy through Operation Chokepoint. Yes. You sent them to this guy, you know, Joe Biden, excluding Elon Musk for whatever you think about him, the idea that you're going to exclude Elon Musk from from electric vehicle, electric vehicle, like, like convening these, these kinds of things, uh, the making of unnecessary enemies and the demonizing of billionaires, you gave up the social justice system.

[00:35:59] Marcus: [00:36:00] Issue war you gave it up, you know, and now we're we're all gonna we're now that's you forget about it Like that is what it is. We're all gonna suffer that for the next four to twelve years I mean, we'll see how long we'll see how long this run goes, uh, but it's gonna be a long one It's it's you know, it's it's it's gonna be a long hard hard one Even if it is just four years and you gave it up on Full on unen, uh, on unforced errors on the economic side of the ledger.

[00:36:26] Marcus: Yeah. Not the, so like, not the, it wasn't the, it wasn't the woke stuff that wa you didn't lose on the woke stuff. And crypto 

[00:36:34] Vic: is not a Republican or democratic no thing. It's a technology. It's like saying, I I don't like the internet. Yes. I mean, I don't know what happened with Biden and Elizabeth Warren, but he seeded a whole bunch of power to her.

[00:36:49] Vic: Dude, maybe there was some mean something. Some deal, I don't really know how it went, but she, um, she did a bunch of [00:37:00] things to try to protect Americans, but they didn't work, and, and it's not, it wasn't helpful. 

[00:37:10] Marcus: Yeah, and they weren't where we are as a country, like, we're not anti innovation. Right. We're just not, you know?

[00:37:17] Marcus: So, anyway, I, I just, I feel like I went on a huge diatribe there, I didn't mean to, but this, to me, like, to me, I look at this and I go, Yeah, this is smart. This is really smart. He should, he should do this, you know, and, 

[00:37:32] Vic: and he is, he has a venture capitalist, David Sachs, running the, the crypto and AI policy, and, and David's good, and he's good, and David's good, and they are going to do whatever they can do to make Crypto markets reasonably open, transparent, fair.

[00:37:53] Vic: There'll be some kind of rules, but 

[00:37:55] Marcus: am I mad at that? No, it's I mean, I wouldn't think so. It's great. It's great. Yeah, right, 

[00:37:59] Vic: right. 

[00:37:59] Marcus: Like [00:38:00] 

[00:38:01] Vic: and so it's a positive thing for the economy for business growth. And why do we want companies mean you and I both know companies that moved abroad because they couldn't they couldn't do what they 

[00:38:14] Marcus: wanted to do in the US totally and they're all going to come back.

[00:38:17] Marcus: Yes. They're all going to come back that, that, that, uh, that income tax thing that Eric Trump talked about on X, where like, if you buy a U. S. crypto, there's zero, there's zero taxes on it. Yeah. 

[00:38:26] Vic: Yeah. 

[00:38:28] Marcus: I mean, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. It's so, this stuff is, it's like they're, I'm sorry, man, their economic ideas are better.

[00:38:38] Vic: Well, I think the Dems have to have a bench of people that, that can do better. And 

[00:38:47] Marcus: I don't know, well, it's not entirely clear to me because what I will tell you is what I, what I see, um, in the post election sort of dem circles is a [00:39:00] lot of kind of a lot of what the, what there was, uh, in, in, um, in the. 2016, except for now there's blue skies.

[00:39:09] Marcus: So you're not seeing it out and about because they're all, everyone's fleeing X. They're going to blue sky. If you go on blue sky, it's just a lot of, um, documenting all the Trump stuff and being really, really mad about it. But any real self aware post mortem of like, where did we go wrong? I have not seen that yet.

[00:39:32] Marcus: I'm not experienced that yet. Um, there's, there's still just a lot of pointing to Trump and talking about like how terrible he is and how bad he is. Um, and not an acknowledgement that this is a competition and you have to win. And what did, where did you fail to win? It's a race. They literally call it a race, like, don't act like you're owed anything.

[00:39:59] Marcus: You have to [00:40:00] compete and you have to win. Why didn't you win? Right? Where, where is any assessment of that? If I compete in Jiu Jitsu and I lose, I don't watch it right away. But once, once I'm emotionally okay, I have to watch it and see where I sucked and like what I have to do to not suck anymore. Yeah.

[00:40:22] Marcus: And I'm just telling you. I haven't seen that yet. I haven't seen that yet. I've, I've just seen a bunch of resolve and things of that nature, you know? 

[00:40:29] Vic: So, I mean, it's hard to be the incumbent and be the change. So, I mean, I think Kamala had a lot of difficulty in, she couldn't distance herself that much from the administration she was part of, but, but she also needed to say.

[00:40:50] Vic: The economy needs to be fixed, and I'm the one to fix it. And so 

[00:40:54] Marcus: Vic, can I, can I ask, uh, if we can pull an audible and pass all the VC deal stuff? Yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. I, [00:41:00] I, I do want to talk about, um A bunch of companies raised money. Yeah, a bunch of companies raised money. I do want to talk about, uh, the General Catalyst.

[00:41:07] Marcus: Yeah. Um, selling stakes. Because this is something we've been talking about, which is General Catalyst is not a VC firm. Yes. Uh, and Axios, uh, Dan Primack, um, covered them, and they are selling stakes of the Holden company. Um, so these would be like their super GP stakes? Yeah. And they, they're, they're selling it because they're, they're a hold code, they're a, you know, they're a conglomerate.

[00:41:31] Marcus: I don't know what they are, but they're not a, they're not a VC anymore, you know? 

[00:41:36] Vic: Well, I mean, what I, when I say the word or the two words, vc, I think of a couple hundred million dollars fund with four. Three to five partners making kind of high growing company five million, ten million, twenty million dollar investments.

[00:41:55] Vic: That's kind of what I imagine. And then Axios does a great [00:42:00] job digging into this. They had, in the last 12 months, they've raised 8 billion in venture capital funds. That's not the scale that I normally think of for venture. No, of course not. And then go down, because I'm not going to get it right. 

[00:42:21] Marcus: It's more like a, like a small cap PE.

[00:42:24] Marcus: Yeah, 

[00:42:24] Vic: yeah. Right. It's a, it's a small ish, not even that small PE firm. Yeah, yeah. Um, and then they have HATCO, which is, which is the entity that they spun up to buy the entire hospital in Ohio. Right, right. That's, maybe some funds are invested in it, but that's a separately owned entity. Right. Inside the holding company.

[00:42:49] Vic: Um. And then they talk about here, uh, they sold a, a stake in the holding company to this thing, Peter Show Partners, that was part of Goldman [00:43:00] Sachs for 2018. As we have been talking about and, and just sort of observing, they haven't been behaving like a regular VC for several years. Um, maybe part of what drove this is they bought that position back from Peter Wolf for like 700 million.

[00:43:23] Vic: Whatever it is, eight years later, they're buying it back. And so they are then selling positions to several large organizations, probably to, to like, take that ownership back, but then redistribute it again. Yeah. Something like that. 

[00:43:40] Marcus: And probably capitalize a build out of their core operating business.

[00:43:44] Marcus: Right. To better support all the crazy businesses they intend to support over the long term. Yes. Which is much more of a PE play, but it's, it's like. It's, it's, it's like an operating business, you know, it's, it's more of an operating business. 

[00:43:58] Vic: There's, there's, um, [00:44:00] there's a thing that's emerging that I don't have it fully formed yet, but we talked about Andreessen Horowitz a minute ago around the crypto stuff.

[00:44:08] Vic: They're the same way. They're a big operation. I don't know how many funds they have. Yeah. And they have a lot of operations. When you, when you, when they invest in a company, they brought a whole bunch of support and tools and people, um, and they really tried to upgrade and redesign the venture model. Um, and General Catalyst is, I think that's where they are competing of like a, they're still doing innovation, new things, growth.

[00:44:36] Vic: It's not private equity in the sense of pretty stable that we lay our debt on and try to get financial engineering. But it's a different animal than the funds we run, certainly. 

[00:44:49] Marcus: Alright, thanks for letting me skip over that section. RFK Jr. backs vaccines in Trump's agenda in Senate testimony. Did you watch any of this?

[00:44:56] Marcus: Yeah, I watched day one, almost all of day one. [00:45:00] 

[00:45:00] Vic: I didn't watch day two. Um It's a bit of a circus. It's a, it's a It's a bit of a hard forum. I don't know why the Senate runs it like that. It's a bit of a 

[00:45:10] Marcus: circus. I mean, like, I, I, uh, I don't feel like it has been this way in the past. I mean, I think there is something to the nature of the picks here.

[00:45:20] Marcus: Um. It's 

[00:45:21] Vic: the nature of the picks and the environment that we started the show off with. Yes, yes. We're like, some, I mean, it's basically a 50 50 Senate. So the committee is one person more than 50 50, but it's basically 50 50 and they all have equal time. And so you get this, uh, I don't know, whipsaw thing where the Democrat will be basically talking for four of the five minutes about the points they want to make and pretty aggressive.

[00:45:54] Vic: And then Robert Kennedy Jr says something, but they're, they're sort of interrupting each other and [00:46:00] just trying to. Create soundbites is what I think. And then you get the Republican, just like a softball question. And you're back and forth. 

[00:46:08] Marcus: Well, one of the things, both in RFK and also with Kash Patel, maybe even more with Kash Patel, but RFK, you know, with Bernie Sanders, you know, Uh, they, they were not afraid to punch back.

[00:46:24] Marcus: Um, they were not afraid to punch back. And that tells me they've whipped up the boats already. Um, that tells me that they're getting confirmed. Um, Trump has whipped up the votes already on these. You know, I know the Hegseth thing had, had a different kind of tint to it. Just with, with the DUIs and the alcohol and the, and the sexual, you know, abuse allegations.

[00:46:48] Marcus: That, that, that one kind of felt like a bridge too far. And I think it was probably harder to get McConnell and a couple of the other ones to go along on that one. But I think RFK and, and Patel and, and Tulsi Gabbard are, [00:47:00] are, are a lock already. There's, I don't think there's going to be any last minute kind of theatrics.

[00:47:04] Marcus: JD Vance coming down to, you know, have to put his vote in for, for those three. That's, I mean, I mean, did, did you, did you see, uh, Cash Patel talking to Amy Klobuchar? I did not see it. I like Amy Koshar, though. Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, she, she, she said something to the tune of, you know, I'd love to have five hours to talk with you.

[00:47:23] Marcus: And he said, you got two minutes. I mean, and it was, it was said, just like I said, like in a very, like, you're not in control here. 

[00:47:32] Vic: Yeah, I think that's right. It's my. What I've heard is that the Trump administration is like pulling any stop cell to just push this across the finish line. They're gonna primary people if they even question it and totally 

[00:47:49] Marcus: did you see the Nicole Shanahan video?

[00:47:51] Marcus: No. So she put a video out naming names Saying, if you vote against, uh, RFK [00:48:00] Jr., um, I will primary you. And she was like, and she was like, and keep, keep in mind, I'm the person, I mean, she took a little bit, a little bit, maybe more credit than, than she should have, but she talked about how she spent her money in Georgia and got Warnock and Ossoff.

[00:48:16] Marcus: So she was like, Hey, listen, this is not a partisan thing, you know, but I do put my money into markets to win these races and, and, and I will. Have revenge if you vote against, uh, Robert Kennedy, uh, here. So, I mean, and named names. Name names. So, I mean, we're just, we're just in a different time, man. We're just in a different time.

[00:48:40] Vic: And we'll talk about it later. I mean, the, uh, when we get to the hymns thing, as we're talking about, I mean, people are frustrated about how much of the healthcare system is trying to help people with chronic disease, but not really having that much success. Yeah. And [00:49:00] I think Robert Kennedy is at least talking a good game about food and let's try to right size science and get people to do.

[00:49:11] Vic: research that will be helpful. I don't know. I mean, it's the Vax, all the vaccination stuff, I think is not what's going to be focused on, but it's a, it's a really an emotional issue on both sides, but I don't. 

[00:49:27] Marcus: Uh, so yeah, I mean, basically talk about that point. We'll, we'll put it in the show notes. Uh, the.

[00:49:33] Marcus: Kaiser Family Foundation put out a really good sort of continually being updated overview of President Trump's executive actions on global health. So is there anything in particular what you want to point out here or just that this is needs to go in the show notes? 

[00:49:45] Vic: Yeah, I think it's good in the show notes and it's good to have as like a reference document.

[00:49:50] Vic: It's long. 

[00:49:51] Marcus: Yeah, 

[00:49:51] Vic: agree. And there's so many and it's hard to know like how much is. Grandstanding to the base and how much is gonna [00:50:00] really like be implemented over the next four years. I don't think we don't know Yeah, but but they do a good job summarizing 

[00:50:06] Marcus: it and and they're regularly updating. Yeah, they're tracking it So I think it's an important link for the show notes Okay, this is in the policy section, but open AI launches chat GPT gov for US government agencies I mean that this is the continuation of the the fun tiff between Elon Musk and Sam Altman You know Elon Uh, definitely has the stronger position as it pertains to the Trump administration, to MAGA in general.

[00:50:33] Marcus: Um, him owning and controlling X is a massive, massive point of leverage for him. Um, you know, X is back in favor. Advertisers are coming back to the platform. Uh, but OpenAI is strong. OpenAI is strong. And of course with the history there between Sam and Elon on OpenAI, Elon is a co founder of OpenAI. Yeah.

[00:50:53] Marcus: Because that history, so I think the, the, uh, the fact that OpenAI has very quickly, [00:51:00] you know, positioned with Trump First on Stargate and now, you know, following that up very quickly with a government version of ChatGPT and makes sense because ChatGPT is, that is the brand, you know, um, I doubt there's going to be a grok for government, you know, um, anytime soon that, that will get the purchase brand wise that, that ChatGPT would.

[00:51:20] Vic: Yeah, I think that's right. The, um. OpenEye has worked really hard to, to collaborate with the federal government. When it was Biden, they were in there and now they're there with Trump. I think it's part of their corporate strategy and they're the first brand. They're the brand that everybody knows. And I think they have challenges as far as like how they make their business make money.

[00:51:51] Vic: But one of the ways to make money is to sell a bunch of seats to the U. S. government and put in controls and [00:52:00] structure and things that other A. I. companies haven't bothered to do. Um, I think it's smart. I don't know if it's going to be the best tool three years from now, but they might sell the government.

[00:52:16] Vic: And then their partnership with Microsoft gives, uh, I mean, the government's only going to buy from Microsoft, Google, or Amazon. That's right. They're not going to buy. from Grok, just because it's too, ah, maybe they're maybe, maybe Elon would be different. That's wrong, but they will buy from Grok. They're not going to buy from some startup that isn't in the White House.

[00:52:35] Marcus: Yeah, and there's no reason why OpenAI shouldn't use their first mover advantage to like, Yes, they need to, they should. And, and of course, this was not possible in the Biden administration because You know, the executive order basically had a bunch of, I don't even know if you want to call them working groups, but it was like, there was a lot of discussion that needed to happen.

[00:52:52] Marcus: There was not going to be a green light for AI in the government. Right. So, you know, that's, that's one of the things we do need to point out is [00:53:00] this, this was only possible in a regime that would totally. Give a green light to AI, right? So, um, yeah, I think that's, that's important. Financial Times, Trump's treasury pick, Scott Besant, pushes universal 2.

[00:53:14] Marcus: 5 percent tariff plan that would rise each month. So month over month, bumping up the tariffs to 2. 5%, um, Besant's pretty serious about You know, lowering the deficit and, um, that's kind of his, his primary charge. And, uh, he seems to be backing Trump's plan here. And, and again, you know, I just think people need to know, I mean, this, this guy is, hasn't done everything in the world, but he's, he's pretty smart guy.

[00:53:39] Marcus: Um, he's pretty smart, uh, you know. Guy when it comes to economy and, and, uh, you know, this billionaire hedge fund guy, and he's backing this plan. So I think, I think it's going to be interesting. You know, look, I certainly on the left, you know, all the people that I've done on the left that there's a lot of poking at the tariff spit.

[00:53:59] Marcus: Um, [00:54:00] but I will say I never hear any of them, uh, actually talk about addressing the deficit and, and the severity of the problem we have with our deficit today. Normally what they will do is they will play a, um, What about game there and kind of say, you know, both the Republicans and the Democrats have been boosted.

[00:54:20] Marcus: Look at how much Trump spent in 2000. Yeah, that's 

[00:54:22] Vic: all true. Yeah. 

[00:54:23] Marcus: Yeah, they'll kind of do that, but they won't actually address the, okay, that's all history today. 

[00:54:30] Vic: If he wanted to start making progress, what would you do? You 

[00:54:33] Marcus: actually were committed to it and it was a fundamental part of what you were doing.

[00:54:36] Marcus: What would you do? What would you do? And, and there's, there's no answers because there's no even discussion about it. Quite frankly, there's no discussion on the, on the left about the, um, about the deficit at all. Right. So this is a place where, where we're just not in the, in the conversation. 

[00:54:53] Vic: Yeah. And that's it is going to have to refinance [00:55:00] 60 percent of all the debt in the next four years.

[00:55:04] Vic: He's the one that has to sell those bonds into the market, and he's a, as you said, he's a hedge fund guy, he's a market participant, he knows how competitive that is, and, and there's a lot of debt to, I mean, when, when bonds mature, we have to issue new bonds or have the cash to pay him, to pay him off, and I think he's looking at it and saying, like, we, we need to bring in some revenue in order to make this progress.

[00:55:40] Marcus: So look, I mean, I'm looking for, um, some real economic analysis on the tariff stuff. I'm tired of hearing just all the people telling me about how tariffs were. I want to see like model it out. How does this work in a modeled perspective and what actually are the implications for us [00:56:00] based businesses? You know, I'm, I'm learning more about how tariffs actually work and how a lot in a lot of cases, the US based businesses are the ones who have to pay it.

[00:56:07] Marcus: It's kind of more of a disincentive. Um, In, in some cases than anything, you know, when, when, when things come in through customs, it's like a lot of U. S. companies would have to pay the, the tariffs. It's not necessarily the other countries that are always paying them. So I, like, I'm just looking for a really 

[00:56:24] Vic: educated input products.

[00:56:28] Vic: So like I, I'm invested in a room patient monitoring company and we buy devices from all over, but a lot from China. And so we're a U. S. company, but our input prices are based on buying, buying, you know, devices that we need to do the role of RPM. And so, yes, I mean, it is, it's difficult all around. I think, um, I'm not going to [00:57:00] do it justice, but a lot of trade wars, um, made the Great Depression worse.

[00:57:07] Vic: I think that's pretty established, um, and tariffs lead to trade wars, but that is based on the assumption that America is on like equal competitive footings. It's a different world. And I don't think we 

[00:57:24] Marcus: are. It's a different world. Yeah. Now, like, you know, 

[00:57:27] Vic: how much stronger we are, what can we get away with?

[00:57:30] Vic: Right. Trump is trying to thread that needle. I mean, we are not going to make the. Blood pressure cuffs and the pulse ox. We don't have the capacity to make those or it's gonna be multiple years Before we can make those. Yeah, 

[00:57:45] Marcus: and look here's here's another thing people need to understand. Uh, I think if you play out Especially looking at the pressure on the American family today And how you know Gen Z is projected to do [00:58:00] worse than Gen X.

[00:58:01] Marcus: I mean What, are you going to keep raising taxes on them to pay for the government? Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's going to work either. Right. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, I'm sorry, but something, I mean, you, you, you. We have to do something. Yeah. You, you and I have run companies. Yeah. And there are things that a lot of people couldn't necessarily stomach that you have to do when you run a company.

[00:58:23] Marcus: You know what I mean? And they're hard and people don't like them. 

[00:58:26] Vic: Yeah. 

[00:58:26] Marcus: And, but like when you're running a company, sometimes you got to do those things. Right. And they're really, really hard and they are bad, but you got to do them. And to me, this deficit is one of those problems where it's like, I don't know that I want to be just trashing this idea.

[00:58:45] Marcus: Um, until I understand all the implications of it. And I know that I don't today. I know that I don't, but I, but I know that I applaud the effort. Actually try to work on the deficit. Now [00:59:00] I will say stylistically Trump's style is not my style. I don't like, um, what comes across to me is cruel. Uh, I think that I think manners matter in a civil society.

[00:59:19] Marcus: Um, And I think why, like, how can you say you're trying to, uh, make America healthy again, knowing that our biggest issue over the last five years has actually been behavioral health and mental health. And of course, these things are going to create mental health issues. This shock and awe is not going to be good for people's mental health.

[00:59:39] Marcus: So, you know, there's, there's, there's that issue, right. That I have, that's just so obvious to me, but okay. 

[00:59:47] Vic: Yeah, whatever. I, I think that it may just be because. I spend a lot of time thinking about this, but I think there's a lot of business people, investors, venture capitalists, [01:00:00] CEOs in and around the Trump administration, or traders.

[01:00:05] Vic: And Elon certainly bought Twitter, now X, and he came in and did a, what you and I would call a turnaround. You know, they were spending a lot of money and he thought it could be run more effectively. And he made a bunch of difficult choices to cut a bunch of costs and made several clients, advertisers, mad.

[01:00:34] Vic: And I've done that in startups before. Of course. If it is If it needs to be turned around, there has to be hard decisions, and a lot of times 

[01:00:45] Marcus: you have to 

[01:00:46] Vic: lay people 

[01:00:46] Marcus: Right, they were That's not why the advertisers were mad, Vic. 

[01:00:49] Vic: Well, so, but I think 

[01:00:51] Marcus: Well, maybe the analogy doesn't work, but I think People were mad because he was firing a lot of people very quickly, but not the advertisers.

[01:00:57] Marcus: Okay. People. Just general public. [01:01:00] Okay. 

[01:01:00] Vic: So maybe he, the point is, is not the advertising. He made those changes and I think JD Vance has, I think Trump probably has seen things like that. I mean, I think a lot of them have that experience in the for profit investing or business running sector. Yep. And I think what you're saying, but I want to say it out loud and see what you think is that's one thing with a.

[01:01:27] Vic: Company. Yes. And it's different for the country of the United States. 

[01:01:31] Marcus: Well, I mean, is it that different? I mean, uh, it's not the doing. It's not the what. It's the how. It's not the what. It's the how. Right. The, the lack of empathy is not the word I want to use here. Um, the lack of dignity with which you treat people [01:02:00] that are impacted, uh, Is, uh, is unnecessary.

[01:02:10] Marcus: Um, except if it is fuel to your base, except, except if this is literally what your base. Is driven by, like if they're driven by the, the beat down, you know, if, if, look, I mean, that is what it's like to be on X. I mean, I've, I've figured out how to get my X thing kind of curated to a place where I'm, I'm minimally impacted by it.

[01:02:42] Marcus: Um, but that's what, that's what it's like to be on that platform. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's a hard environment to be in, you know, it's hard. It's, it's, uh, there's a lot of cruelty on that platform. A lot. [01:03:00] 

[01:03:01] Vic: I, I agree with that. I also think if hypothetically, if the Trump administration were to let go of 30 percent of federal employees at some big administration, I'm not sure it matters how they do it.

[01:03:20] Vic: People that lose their job will be mad. Now it's obviously you can do it. You can throw salt in the room and do it really aggressively and meanly. And what I would say to that is I think a leader should lead the base, not. Cater to the worst aspects of the base, but I don't know 

[01:03:42] Marcus: that Trump is that leader.

[01:03:43] Marcus: You know, it's, you know, it's funny, right? I mean, because it, it is a question. It is a little bit of a question. Is this actually how he wants to be? And I think a lot of people who have tracked his history would say yes, this is actually who he is. Or, and [01:04:00] maybe it's an and slash or, uh, is there an element of audience capture here?

[01:04:05] Marcus: Right where it's like it's kind of a runaway train now at this point, you know, where the this is This is what the base demands. Yeah, right, you know, this is what the base demands So it's so it's it's interesting. It's that's 

[01:04:24] Vic: why I think a country is different than a company. Let's say Some federal agency has 500, 000 workers and they really need 200, 000.

[01:04:39] Vic: I think we need to right size it, but those people are going to be in the country. I mean, they're citizens. And so we have to find a way to. Get them new jobs, retrain them, because, because if we don't, then, then we have to take care of them in other ways. And so, being, being the, the government of a [01:05:00] country is different than, than a company, I think.

[01:05:03] Vic: Yeah, for sure. And I, I think a lot of the tactics, like the offer for resignation, all those things. Pretty standard turnaround things, but the country is, is, I don't know if it should be run that way. 

[01:05:19] Marcus: Um, I'm skipping more stuff. Okay. Uh, we're going to do rapid fire through, through, uh, through the industry.

[01:05:25] Marcus: Cigna set to close 3. 7 billion MA sale to HCSC and Q1. We've been watching this for a while. Finally going to happen. Yes. Right. Anything else to say there? No. Okay. Walgreens shares dropped 10 percent after company suspends quarterly dividend amid turnaround efforts. This guy's tried his best to turn this thing around, but he's doing all the hard things.

[01:05:44] Marcus: I mean, speaking of like hard things, uh, this, this, this guy is in there finding everything he can do to save money. Tim Wentworth. 

[01:05:53] Vic: Yeah. I mean, they're in trouble and the entire business. [01:06:00] I don't know. I feel like I need to proactively 

[01:06:02] Marcus: change my pharmacy. Walgreens has been my pharmacy. It's just who I've trusted and everything, but I, I think I need to, I, before it comes from me, I think I need to swap out.

[01:06:12] Marcus: I don't know if it's gonna be Publix or Kroger, but I, I probably need to swap out. HCA healthcare post revenue gains despite hurricane roadblocks and the execs address Trump policy uncertainties. What, what did, what does Sam say about the uncertainties? 

[01:06:25] Vic: Yeah, so they are concerned about changes in the regulatory environment.

[01:06:31] Vic: They have a lot of headwinds. And so they, they met earnings, but they didn't guide well, and they have a lot of headwinds. Well, 

[01:06:38] Marcus: it's hard to guide. I mean, you know, like, you know, climate change. Yeah. That's pretty hard to predict. 

[01:06:45] Vic: Yes. I mean, that affected, the hurricanes affected them. Massively. Massively.

[01:06:48] Vic: Yeah. Yeah. And I think inflation is not good. And inflation's hard. And so, they just are Both on 

[01:06:56] Marcus: labor and supplies. Yes. Yeah, it's hard. 

[01:06:58] Vic: And so, [01:07:00] it's a, it's a very well run company, and they showed HCA in the best light they could. Yeah. And it's, I mean it, I own HCA, and I think it's gonna be fine, but, but this year is gonna be a hard, hard year.

[01:07:14] Marcus: Yeah, it's, it's, it's just hard. Environment. Yeah, right now. This is not about how the company is performing. They'll operate. They'll operate other Incredibly well, but this is it's a tough environment. All right, so Uh hims and hers to advertise weight loss shots at the super bowl And this is probably a really good indicator of the the shift in in the vibe.

[01:07:36] Marcus: Um, this is a very aggressive ad Uh, we'll put a link to it in the show notes. It's it's on youtube so you can see the ad right now It's a minute spot. Um, and it's aggressive. It's aggressive. 

[01:07:47] Vic: Yes, and It takes a point of view that I was surprised about. Well, tries to get on 

[01:07:56] Marcus: the RFK train. 

[01:07:57] Vic: Yeah. Yeah. And, and sort of says [01:08:00] the system, or I don't know what they mean by the system.

[01:08:04] Vic: It's 

[01:08:04] Marcus: not your 

[01:08:05] Vic: fault that you're fat, it's not your fault. You're fat. The system has conspired to do this to you. Yes. And hims hims and hers has a solution. Yes. We will solve it. Yes. Um, and, 

[01:08:19] Marcus: and, and it shouldn't cost that much. 

[01:08:22] Vic: Yes. 

[01:08:23] Marcus: Yeah, it shouldn't cost that much. It shouldn't cost that much. 

[01:08:26] Vic: Right. And so it's just a really interesting time where, the way I see this is, they are making a generic version of a, Patent protected drug 

[01:08:42] Marcus: that they had emergency authorization to compound shortage shortages was in shortage for a period of time.

[01:08:49] Marcus: That's no longer the case. Yes. But they, you know, here's the thing. Right? It's a wonderfully calculated gamble. Yeah. [01:09:00] Because of the timing and they can't lose what's going on. 

[01:09:03] Vic: They can't lose. It's a 

[01:09:03] Marcus: wonderfully calculated gamble. It's brilliant. 

[01:09:06] Vic: Yeah, 

[01:09:07] Marcus: it's brilliant. I feel like, uh, I'm a little bit surprising myself at some of the things I'm saying are brilliant, but I think it's a sign of the times like we are.

[01:09:18] Marcus: One of the things I've been saying to myself, just like watching everything is like Marcus, you're on your own. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're on your own. And I've always kind of, uh, directed my life in a way where I, I kind of felt that, um, it comes from, like, not having a credential, right? So, basically Yeah, and, 

[01:09:39] Vic: and being a builder and a founder.

[01:09:41] Marcus: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's like I'm on my own, right? You know what I mean? I can't worry, I can't expect anyone to come save me, right? You know? But this shift that we're undergoing right now in society, certainly different than anything I think I've experienced in my adult life. Um, and [01:10:00] it is, uh, it's kind of an anything goes environment, right?

[01:10:05] Marcus: You know, it's, it's like full contact capitalism. It's, it's, it's the, the upper right quadrant of the executive compass, you know, 

[01:10:14] Vic: prisoners just win all 

[01:10:16] Marcus: liberty and efficiency. Yeah. Like that's. It we're full on that way. Um, yeah. So, and so in that environment, right. So again, as an investor and entrepreneur, like I play with the rules on the field, right in that environment, my objective assessment of this is this is brilliant.

[01:10:35] Vic: Yeah. They, they saw an opportunity where the regulatory bodies are really mad at how much. Novo and, and Lillian are charging for this drug and we're not likely to enforce the IP protection. And that's a really, that's a new [01:11:00] thing for me to process. I mean, as a VC, half of our companies have some IP that they are building their company around the concept that that will mean something.

[01:11:09] Vic: And Apparently it does mean something unless, unless you charge too much, but what is too much? I mean, you either have intellectual property or you don't have it. And yeah, I don't think we are in shortage for Ozympic anymore for any of them now. And yet this is continuing. 

[01:11:28] Marcus: Yeah. And, and look, I think at the end of the day, they make a compelling populist argument.

[01:11:35] Marcus: Yes. Right. That's what's brilliant about the commercial. It's a, it's a very compelling populist argument. So it's the right message for the time. Yeah, and the right message is 

[01:11:44] Vic: the reason it's brilliant is it's designed to speak to drive customer adoption sure But also to talk to Bernie Sanders and Robert Kennedy and whoever else knows you're on your side.

[01:11:56] Vic: Yes, and That's why it's, that's why [01:12:00] it's brilliant. 

[01:12:00] Marcus: Yeah. Novo Nordisk's Ozempic gets FDA approval as kidney disease treatment. So, while hims and hers are going to continue to try to hold their position in the weight loss space, Glip1's are continuing to expand their clinical viability into multiple areas of chronic disease.

[01:12:21] Marcus: Um, and now, you know, I think we're, we're going to see it out there treating people with kidney disease. You know? Purchase. Amazing. I mean, 

[01:12:31] Vic: yeah, I mean, I 

[01:12:31] Marcus: think 

[01:12:32] Vic: the way I take this is they're expanding the label. They're expanding like what it can be prescribed for. Yeah, but these are, but it's weight loss.

[01:12:42] Vic: If you lose weight, your kidney disease gets 

[01:12:43] Marcus: better. It's, okay, yes. Now let's talk about it in terms of healthcare economics and the healthcare industry. Because weight loss is not part of the healthcare industry. Not yet. Chronic kidney disease is part of the [01:13:00] healthcare industry. Right? Like, that's, that's a whole, very serious subset of the industry.

[01:13:09] Marcus: Dialysis, and the home health, and the on and on and on, and all the stuff around CKD. Um, I mean, hell, it's, it's, it's a fundamental component of Medicare. Yeah. You know? And stage renal disease. I just think this, the impact of this on the healthcare industry, as we understand it today, and some of the incumbents is really significant.

[01:13:35] Marcus: It's significant. I 

[01:13:37] Vic: mean, the way I see this is they're taking a, it's like an underlying cause of kidney disease. Diabetes, heart disease, COPD, I don't know, I could probably name three or four more. They are all made worse and exacerbated and [01:14:00] brought on through someone being overweight. And so forever we have treated the symptoms of the particular chronic disease and tried to, tried to deal with it.

[01:14:16] Vic: And I think what Novo is now knocking down one at a time is. Well, if you, if you improve this underlying cause, the downstream effects improve kidney disease. I think, um The active ingredient is the same in HIMS. So HIMS is not going to worry about expansion label. They don't have a label now. 

[01:14:40] Marcus: No, but, but, but also they're not marketing to people with kidney disease.

[01:14:44] Marcus: I guess is the point because that's something that really does need to be done in coordination with, with a doctor in a much more serious setting. 

[01:14:53] Vic: Yeah, you have, that's, that's kind of the point. If you have, if you have kidney disease, you have multiple doctors and you're in [01:15:00] dialysis every week. HIMS and 

[01:15:00] Marcus: HERS doesn't want to do that.

[01:15:01] Marcus: Right. Uh, Roche had great earnings, uh, and growth and stock was up, right? Yes. And, and also Sanofi, um, planning a 5. 2 billion buyback. So actually pretty good start to the quarter for, for some of the biggest brands in pharma. 

[01:15:16] Vic: Yeah, I think, um, there's starting to be a bifurcation of if you actually have a decent pipeline of products.

[01:15:23] Marcus: And we lost cancer. You're doing really well. Yeah, yes, and we lost cancer. And we lost our cancer. Yeah, yeah. Into our AI rundown. This is a big one. Yeah. Big, big, big, big week. And I listened, and you and Emily actually did cover Deep Seek. Yeah, 

[01:15:35] Vic: yeah, yeah. 

[01:15:36] Marcus: You did. But like the real fallout from Deep Seek hadn't like landed yet.

[01:15:39] Marcus: Hadn't really. Hadn't landed. Right. So it was good to listen to you in that time stamp. Yeah, earlier. Talking about, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before everyone sort of realized, oh, snap, this is like Sputnik moment. Right? You know what I mean? Yes. Um, but let's push that off for a second. Open AI released operator. Um, this is their AI agent that can automate different tasks.

[01:15:58] Marcus: It's, it's, um, sort [01:16:00] of trained on different websites. So whether you're talking about booking, I think like open table is something you can do. And you can probably book a trip for you and things like that. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's closed, right? So they don't 

[01:16:11] Vic: say exactly how it works. Sure. But they, they said that it has this tool of, of computer use.

[01:16:21] Vic: Which is the AI model driving the mouse and the website like a human would, which could really unlock just any website being open. 

[01:16:33] Marcus: Yeah. 

[01:16:33] Vic: Um, but the, the Shopify example, I mean, there's been other agents that have been doing that for three months. And so. It wasn't, it wasn't like the jaw dropping demo that definitely not, definitely not, but 

[01:16:47] Marcus: here's one thing Sam understands.

[01:16:49] Marcus: He needs to keep a drum beat PR going. He, that part is very clear. He understands he can't be on the Steve job schedule. He can't have one or two big WWDCs a [01:17:00] year, right? He's going to have to very regularly put a new brand name out there with some capabilities. Yeah. Even if it's not even live yet, it doesn't matter.

[01:17:10] Marcus: Doesn't matter. 

[01:17:11] Vic: Yeah. 

[01:17:11] Marcus: Yeah. That's right. So that, that's, I, I think that's, I think that's smart. Um, open AI and talks for huge investment round valuing it at up to 300 billion soft bank would lead 40 billion round for chat GPT maker, um, which would go to this. So that would count for the Stargate 500, uh, billion.

[01:17:28] Vic: Yeah. Who is AI at 300 billion? SoftBank, would you invest in that? I mean, what, how are they gonna, how does it justify that? I don't mean, I know there's a lot of momentum and it's a brand, 

[01:17:44] Marcus: well, obviously, obviously this kind of valuation and this kind of investment is not done on discounted cash flows or anything like that, right?

[01:17:52] Marcus: Yeah. This, this is a bet that this changes the world, you know? Yeah. They get to a 

[01:17:59] Vic: GI. [01:18:00] 

[01:18:00] Marcus: I mean, if, if it's that 300 billion today right? Then I think you're probably betting that it pretty easily gets to 3 trillion. Right?

[01:18:16] Marcus: Right. I mean, that that would, that would've to be the math, right? That would've be the math. That would've To be the math. I 

[01:18:20] Vic: don't see that. I don't see that math. I mean, the only way I see it is, is if, if chat g PT gets to a GI before anyone else, and it really does. Take off and give them a lot of power 

[01:18:32] Marcus: this this feels like a really good time to to, uh, shift to deep seek.

[01:18:38] Vic: Yeah Yeah, cuz cuz right I wouldn't be saying that except for yeah. 

[01:18:42] Marcus: Yeah So so a link that we're not gonna play here, but an episode of bankless Well, we'll put a link in the show notes to this bankless show bankless has been doing some some great podcast lately on the intersection of crypto and AI and you know It's, [01:19:00] it's not for the, um, layman, let's just say that, you know, the level of deep.

[01:19:07] Marcus: Yes, it's, it's really deep in the understanding of how LLMs actually work, um, but they point out some really interesting, uh, computer science sort of, uh, fulcrums that the deep sea team focused on really with, with the limiting factor being, you don't have access to the best chips in the world. Right? So it's like, if you don't have access to the best chips in the world and you can't rely on hardware.

[01:19:29] Marcus: What would you do in terms of changing your approach on the software development? That's kind of the way I would frame it for the layman. Right. Right. 

[01:19:34] Vic: Necessity is the mother of invention. That's right. You don't have the chips. You got to figure out something else. 

[01:19:38] Marcus: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

[01:19:40] Marcus: So, you know, what to know about China's deep seek AI? I would say we don't know much, you know, uh, I would say that we, we know that it certainly was trained on lesser chips and not the, you know, the, what's the name of the, the Nvidia chip? Yeah, 

[01:19:59] Vic: yeah, [01:20:00] yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's Blackwell, and then also I 

[01:20:03] Marcus: think Blackwell's like the big one though, right?

[01:20:04] Marcus: Okay, so it was not trained on those, so we know that. Um, there is speculation that it was trained on OpenAI data, but that's not confirmed. Um, although there are people running different tests and saying it's behaving very similarly. Right, right. We, I've seen videos on X that have shown it clean itself up if you ask it questions about the CCP.

[01:20:27] Marcus: Yeah. TNM Square. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's like there are things that, you know, and this is kind of par for the course with, with these, these models. So that's, that's kind of to be expected. But the, the big thing we do know about is that it's open source. It's, it's, uh, it's released on an MIT license. Yeah. And that means.

[01:20:45] Marcus: Anybody can take it and do anything with it commercially. Um, and the end result of that thing is yours. Yes. That's crazy. 

[01:20:57] Vic: Yes. 

[01:20:57] Marcus: That's 

[01:20:58] Vic: a big deal. And it's [01:21:00] pretty close to as good as OpenAI's models. And 40 times cheaper. Something like that, or a magnitude, it's massively cheaper. So, um, and then what's interesting is that because it's open source, the Engineers in this country in my portfolio and in Soka Valley and everywhere are learning from this and now incorporating all of these training techniques that are You know, maybe a little more nimble and witty.

[01:21:46] Vic: If you didn't have the capital and the chips, you have to figure out something else. But now everyone has those things. And I think that we're really going to see less of a reliance on [01:22:00] capital, compute, and data. Although more of those things is always better. Yep. But there's also going to be like the software.

[01:22:10] Vic: How it is designed really matters. Yep. And I, I'm sort of, of the opinion that it's gonna be essentially free. I mean, I put $2, $2 in deep seek. That was my, that's what I had to put in to, to get signed up. And I mean, I use other models too, but so far I've spent 27 cents. in the last week. And that's not the frame of reference that these other models are.

[01:22:44] Vic: They're, they're a monthly charge, or if you start paying with a token, it's, it's a lot. And it's just, it's at a price point where you don't have to, I don't have to worry about it. Like, whatever I do, it's, it's not free, but it's so cheap and it's declining that it's [01:23:00] essentially free. 

[01:23:01] Marcus: I used Olama, which is a Mac OS open source, like basically wrapper and container.

[01:23:07] Marcus: Right. And I installed DeepSeek for free and I pay nothing. Yeah. And then I used a little web UI and. And it's got all these configurations, and I've got free DeepSeek running locally on my laptop. I'm not paying anything. 

[01:23:25] Vic: And then I'm on Three other sort of, uh, platforms and all three added it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[01:23:32] Vic: Just like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:23:34] Marcus: So, but, but like, that's the thing. The variety of ways that you can get to it. Yes. The variety of ways you can get to it. Open AI is the only way to get to chat GPT. Right. That's it. Right. To get to 01. That's it. You have to go through, through open AI deep seek. You did it one way.

[01:23:52] Marcus: I did it a different way. Right. Right. And that's, that's a big difference, you know, [01:24:00] and 

[01:24:00] Vic: if it's going to be a hundred companies that because open source, yeah, it's just going to be in there and they'll change whatever they want to change and you can add to it. 

[01:24:09] Marcus: I mean, and, you know, I think we're going to talk here in a second here about, um.

[01:24:15] Marcus: Meta, you know, and how, and how they're kind of doing a bit of a victory lap on their strategy. Although if I got to pick llama or deep seek llamas on the metal license that like is kind of open source, but if I started making money, I got to pay meta or the deep seek license, which is MIT and like, it's mine.

[01:24:37] Vic: Yeah. Matt is going to dump that, that stupid life. They're going 

[01:24:39] Marcus: to have to, they're going to have to, right. I mean, it's, it's no longer competitive. 

[01:24:43] Vic: No, 

[01:24:43] Marcus: the model is no longer competitive. Yes. And your license is no longer competitive. Right. Okay. Um, so. Obviously, there was fallout in the, in the market, you know, uh, but it was brief.

[01:24:56] Marcus: It wasn't anything sort of major, but, uh, the, [01:25:00] the storyline here was about NVIDIA and about how maybe the strategy of not getting NVIDIA chips into China drove them to innovate and create DeepSeek, which actually makes Stargate look silly because why are you investing all this money in foundational models when open source is going to win?

[01:25:14] Marcus: You really need to be building better apps, right? That's 

[01:25:16] Vic: why I wouldn't invest in open AI now. 

[01:25:20] Marcus: Listen, I totally understand. Uh, I, I'm just saying this was their, their thinking. They, they believe it's going to get the 3 trillion clearly. Um, but, uh, at Austin on, uh, on X, uh, had a post where he was pointing out Nvidia's, uh, revenue by country and showing that, um, they're pacing for 10 billion a year to Singapore.

[01:25:41] Marcus: That's a fourth of all of Nvidia revenue coming from the very small country of Singapore. And he said, yeah, these are 100 percent going to China. Um, you know, I don't know that that's actually correct. Um, there's 

[01:25:52] Vic: some businesses in Singapore that probably want it, but a lot of them are going. 

[01:25:56] Marcus: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:25:57] Marcus: I mean, Singapore is a very, very innovative, you [01:26:00] know, country, no question. And a lot of great companies have outposts in Singapore. So from the West, you know, it's kind of like a great Asian outpost, uh, if you're from the West, but at the same time, like. It's probably safe to assume some percentage of those chips are in fact, you know going going to China So I thought it was a funny post We talked about the meta engineer seeing the vindication meta had another great quarter revenue grew to forty eight point four billion dollars It's just unbelievable how this company keeps growing truly Unbelievable.

[01:26:33] Marcus: I mean, is there anything else to say about no 

[01:26:35] Vic: just mean I Meta is a machine. 

[01:26:39] Marcus: 21 percent increase in sales. 20. 8 billion in net income. And TikTok 

[01:26:44] Vic: isn't turned off yet. I mean, if it gets turned off 20. 8 is not 

[01:26:47] Marcus: getting turned off. That's over. It's not getting turned off. Trump's gonna do a deal. Microsoft hits a bump in their cloud computing business.

[01:26:55] Vic: Yeah, I mean, I think I don't know where Microsoft's going. [01:27:00] They were They had a lot of chips on the table with OpenAI. And their cloud business has to be the place now, but they're not really designed the same way that, that Amazon and Google, 

[01:27:13] Marcus: they've got a supply issue here. Yeah, not a demand issue.

[01:27:16] Marcus: They've got a supply issue. They can't meet the demand. They can't, they can't build the centers fast enough. That's their issue right now. So, I mean, that's a good ish problem to have, but people are going to find alternatives. I mean, they're not going to wait. They're not going to, a wait list is not, no, no one's, no one's, I mean, 

[01:27:33] Vic: if there's another cloud provider available, which there are, they're not waiting.

[01:27:38] Vic: That's 

[01:27:38] Marcus: right. Yeah. So something they'll definitely have to get worked out. Um, evolutionary scale, ESM three is simulating 500 million years of evolution with the language model. So this is like in the category of, uh, uh, deep mind, right? Yeah. 

[01:27:50] Vic: Yeah. Yeah. It's a biology language model. Yeah. So instead of putting together.

[01:27:57] Vic: Characters into words and paragraphs. [01:28:00] They're putting, um, DNA and RNA into proteins and forms of life. And it's pretty interesting. And yeah, it's a competitor with DeepMind. They, I forget what the exact name is, but Google DeepMind has a similar. Protein folding thing. Alpha fold. Alpha fold. Yeah. Um, and then what I thought was interesting is they simulated 500 million years of evolution.

[01:28:27] Vic: That's amazing. To like see the changes and there's a ton of learning that the society will get to pull out of that. And a lot of healthcare potential 10 years from now 

[01:28:42] Marcus: or in the future. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Alright, and final, feel good story. Good job with this one. Good job with this one. Uh, from chalkboards to chatbots, transforming learning in Nigeria one prompt at a time.

[01:28:55] Vic: This school in Nigeria gave every student some AI, an [01:29:00] AI tool and a teacher to help them figure out how to use it. And in six weeks, I think they made two years of learning progress, like incredible progress. Um, and I think all positive, like letting people. Get more access to education and improve themselves faster with technology tools.

[01:29:26] Vic: I think it's good for 

[01:29:26] Marcus: everyone. I mean, listen, if, if AI can help educate children around the world better, that's. You know, that is such a net positive, um, such a net positive and real, really exciting and just confirming that there is an upside to this technology. We think a lot about it in terms of the existing labor force and not about how, quite frankly, our education systems have been faltering, um, you know, over the course of the last couple of decades.

[01:29:57] Marcus: And so if I can can bolster [01:30:00] our education systems globally. And hopefully really in America, that would be amazing. 

[01:30:07] Vic: And, and no matter where you live, if you have access to one of these systems, you have all the, all the intelligence of the entire society right there. It's amazing. And then I think it was really interesting that they didn't get the same result when they, cause they did a controlled study.

[01:30:24] Vic: They gave it to some kids without the helper, without the human guide. And they didn't make progress. 

[01:30:30] Marcus: Oh, so you needed, 

[01:30:32] Vic: you needed a person to help you, you know, which I'm sure you've experienced. I've experienced like it takes a while to figure out how do I prompt this in a way that I get what I want out.

[01:30:41] Vic: Yeah. Um, and so there's still a role for teachers to motivate kids and inspire them and give them assistance, but then they have the entire world of knowledge as a tool there. Uh, to explore wherever they want to explore. And I think that's completely positive. 

[01:30:59] Marcus: So [01:31:00] somehow I think we managed to keep this show shorter than last week's show, but barely.

[01:31:04] Marcus: Yeah. Barely. Uh, so good luck next week. Uh, not doing another marathon show and uh, sorry for anyone who felt they needed to scrub past my, my diatribe. Yeah. And then for our 

[01:31:15] Vic: hardcore listeners that are still listening, uh, we have a great guest Seema Verma, uh, from Oracle. Yes. Yes. Good to meet you. I did the interview with her this week, uh, there's a lot of, um, PR hurdles to get through and things, but it was a great, great talk and Oracle Health is, is really going to be powerful.

[01:31:34] Vic: So, uh, that's a good one. We're probably coming out in a week or so, a week and a half. 

[01:31:39] Marcus: Yeah. Yeah. And also, um. just sincere thoughts and prayers to everybody who was impacted by the, um, American Airlines, uh, crash in, in DC, uh, happened to be, uh, many members of the ice skating community. And I didn't have a connection to that world before [01:32:00] I, I, I became friends with Scott Hamilton, but now I do feel pretty connected to that world.

[01:32:04] Marcus: And Scott has just been reeling from that. So, um, very, very sad. And, um, just. Want to give thoughts and prayers to everybody out there and, and, and then also, uh, rest in peace to my, my brother, my oldest brother passed away on Tuesday, uh, Jeff, and, uh, you know, he was a giant in, in, in my life and, um, uh, I'm definitely going to miss him, but I'm, uh, I'm thankful he's no longer, uh, suffering.

[01:32:29] Marcus: Um, so I'm, I'm, uh, I'm gonna miss you, buddy. And, um. And thanks to, and thanks to Emily, who was probably the first person to know about that. And, um, even while we were recording, texted me that she's thinking about me. So, um, Emily, I love you. And, um, I think that's all we got. Yeah.